Risks of helicopter winching?
Pure risk assesment
In short, winching operations should be limited to when there is absolutely no alternative. SAR crews face quite enough "routine" threats in their day to day roles, without facing (knowingly or unknowingly) unnecessary threats.
We don't winch but use a double hook and sling people in and out of situations. One of my crewmen is a sling junky and likes to fly under on the line, and I have to constantly tell him no, and to Carry the patient the small distance to the helicopter (where possible).... no matter how many times I explain the risks of hanging underneath to him...
The few extra minutes don't make much difference to the whole rescue.
Thread Starter
Ascend. In that example you give it sounds to me as if the attempted landing or a winching was not necessary in this case as you mention everyone was later recovered by a ground crew.
Did I understand you correctly?
Did I understand you correctly?
Back to your OP, as I mentioned the loss of a donk isn't the only consideration for assessment of whether to winch or not, and many have contributed examples already. But any Australian winch approved operator will have these criteria enshrined in their ops manual and if a pilot isn't following them then it comes back to either operational necessity or poor decision making skills.
Times have changed, and what we used to do isn't what is currently acceptable in many cases.
Super F, when the floats are popped on a 76, the strut that holds open the flipper doors for the main gear gets severed, so the doors are free to flap (and stops them from puncturing the bags). Nobody would subsequently fly around with those doors flapping in the breeze. And anyway, there is no way to "suck up" the float bags once inflated. You have been duped.
Dick, I have tried in vain to find the newspaper article about Chucky's Second Swim, to refresh my tired brain on the facts. It may even have been the Westpac crew who had to come and remove the fishermen and the Polair crew. Don't remember, but there was a vague memory of them being retrieved by rescue squad people coming down the cliffs. Or maybe they were the ones who hooked the Squirrel up for the Kamov. Nearly 30 years ago, and I had left Polair by then.
Dick, I have tried in vain to find the newspaper article about Chucky's Second Swim, to refresh my tired brain on the facts. It may even have been the Westpac crew who had to come and remove the fishermen and the Polair crew. Don't remember, but there was a vague memory of them being retrieved by rescue squad people coming down the cliffs. Or maybe they were the ones who hooked the Squirrel up for the Kamov. Nearly 30 years ago, and I had left Polair by then.
John, I think if you talk to pilots who fly the 139 in full SAR role with a normal fuel load - OEI hover isn't an option - it seems to be a bit of an urban myth with the aircraft that is not borne out by reality.
For example - adding FIPS costs about 200kg in payload.
For example - adding FIPS costs about 200kg in payload.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good skills - nice job
Back in the early 80s, we were called to the cliffs near Bondi to help 2 rock fishermen stranded by rising tide, big seas, and approaching nightfall. We were able to find a flattish rock to land on and loaded them into the cabin for the 400' climb back to the top of the cliff.
A month later, another call to the same area. We land, get them on board again in the same fashion. The crewman looks at the men, says "You're the same ****s that we picked up last month! You haven't learned a ****** thing!" , opened the door, and threw their gear into the sea.
A month later, another call to the same area. We land, get them on board again in the same fashion. The crewman looks at the men, says "You're the same ****s that we picked up last month! You haven't learned a ****** thing!" , opened the door, and threw their gear into the sea.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: New Zealand
Age: 52
Posts: 395
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Super F, when the floats are popped on a 76, the strut that holds open the flipper doors for the main gear gets severed, so the doors are free to flap (and stops them from puncturing the bags). Nobody would subsequently fly around with those doors flapping in the breeze. And anyway, there is no way to "suck up" the float bags once inflated. You have been duped.
SF
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Oregon, US
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dick, I started a list back in 2013 when I was considering starting a hoist program.
These are all of the ones I knew of as of 2013. I think there have been a few since....
I recall one earlier this year where a boat captain being hoisted broke is leg when the helicopter set him down abruptly in rough seas.
August 31, 2013 - The ATSB is investigating the 31 August2013 accident where a person fell from a winch harness and died while beingwinched on board an Air Ambulance Victoria helicopter near Lake Eildon,Victoria.
July 22, 2013 - On July 22,2013, about 2220 Pacific daylight time (PDT), a rescue officer fell from a BellHH-1H, N233JP, during a rescue hoist operation near Mount Charleston, Nevada.Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department operated the helicopter as apublic-use search and rescue operation under the provisions of 14 Code ofFederal Regulations (CFR) Part 91. The flight crew consisted of two commercialpilots and three crewmen, a crew chief, a hoist operator, and a rescue officer.The rescue officer was fatally injured, the rescued passenger and fourcrewmembers were uninjured; the helicopter sustained no damage. The localpublic-use flight departed North Las Vegas, Nevada, about 2150. Night visualmeteorological conditions prevailed, and no flight plan had been filed.Theoperator reported that during a night time rescue operation, while hoisting acivilian hiker and a rescue officer off the side of a mountain, the rescueofficer fell to his death. The civilian hiker was recovered to the helicopterby use of the helicopter hoist without injury. Subsequent investigations have revealed no equipment malfunctions.
March 3, 2013 A SaudiCivil Defence rescue officer has died after he fell from a helicopter duringthe celebration of the World Civil Defence Day in the capital Riyadh. Reportssaid that First Class Pvt Abdul Aziz Bin Abdullah Al Qah’tani was not able tosurvive the severe injuries and fractures he suffered when he fell on Saturdaymorning in the parking lot of Gharnata Mall.
December 25, 2011 A paramedic has been killed while trying towinch an injured canyoner to safety at Carrington Falls near Wollongong in NSW.It isunderstood that with the injured canyoner strapped to him, Mr Wilson steppedoff a cliff and swung into the ravine so the pair could be winched up into thehelicopter. But they crashed into acliff face opposite and Mr Wilson was pinned between his patient and therock wall. Both men had to be lowered to the ravine floor, police said, wherethe helicopter team was forced to cut the winch line. It is understood that wasdone because Mr Wilson was unable to free himself from the wire. He died soonafter from internal injuries.
November9, 2009 - The Australian TransportSafety Bureau released a final investigative report regarding the November 9,2009 hoisting accident. This accident seriously injured two crew members, whenthe hoist cable failed and they fell approximately 50 ft (16 m) ontodeck of the ship. The event occurred when a Bell 412 operated by Torres StraitAmbulance rendezvoused with a container ship (Maersk Duffield) to evacuate anill crew member.
July 21, 2009 - The purpose of the flight was toconduct proficiency rappel training. During a preflight equipment check, one ofthe rappellers identified a broken "Kong" clip on the Tri-link/J-hookinterface on the harness. He replaced the Kong clip with a rubber O-ring (anauthorized substitution) and then he returned to the helicopter. Minutes later,with the helicopter in a stabilized hover, witnesses on the ground reportedthat they observed the rappeller transition from inside the helicopter to theport side skid, then fall down the rope at excessive speed. Postaccidentexamination of the rope and harness assembly revealed that the rappeller'sJ-hook was attached to the Sky Genie and rope; however, the J-hook was notattached to the Tri-link and harness. A broken O-ring, believed to be theO-ring used to center the Tri-link and J-hook, was found on the groundapproximately 30 feet from where the harness assembly was located. Evidenceobtained during the investigation suggests that the rappeller's Tri-link andJ-hook were not mechanically linked (prior to the rappeller transitioning tothe skid), but rather inadvertently linked together with a non load-bearingO-ring used to center the latching devices. Examination of the J-hook, SkyGenie, Tri-link and harness by investigators from the US Forest Servicerevealed no evidence of malfunction or defect.
The National Transportation SafetyBoard determines the probable cause(s) of this accident to be:
The rappeller'sfailure to properly latch the rappelling harness to the rappelling assemblybefore exiting the helicopter.
Sept 4, 2008 - A helicopter crash that killed a four-member US CoastGuard aircrew last year was caused when a tangled rescue hoist snappedand damaged the rotor blades, according to a report released Friday.The aircrewmanaged to right the helicopter but did not realize that the helicopter was toodamaged to return to land the night of Sept. 4, 2008, according toinvestigators.The Dolphin HH-65 crashed into the Pacific Ocean six miles southof Honolulu International Airport. The service members killed that night wereCmdr. Thomas Nelson, Lt. Cmdr. Andrew Wischmeier, Aviation Survival Technician1st Class David Skimin and Aviation Maintenance Technician 1st Class JoshuaNichols. Nelson, the pilot, was the executive officer at Coast Guard AirStation Barbers Point.
February 10, 2005,an MD-902 helicopter crashed while conducting hoist operations on a containership off Shanghai, China. Three occupants were fatally injured, the pilotsustained serious injuries.
January 10, 2005,about 1312 UTC, a Sikorsky S76C, JA6903, operated by the Japan Coast Guard on atraining mission, experienced a loss ofengine power while hovering over a ship located 28 nautical miles westsouthwest of Niigata Airport (RJSN). The helicopter collided with the shipbefore hitting the water and sinking. The meteorological conditions at the timeare unknown. The helicopter was destroyed and the two pilots, and two of the fourcrewmembers were not injured. The other two crewmembers received serious andminor injuries. It was reported that the helicopter was hovering about 80 feetabove a Coast Guard ship, lowering a hoist cable to pick up a rescuer and adummy from the ship deck when the number 1 engine experienced a loss of power.The hoist cable was cut by a crew member and the pilot tried to maneuver thehelicopter away from the ship. During the descending and evasive maneuver, thehelicopter collided with the bow of the ship with its tail section. The pilotwas unable to deploy the helicopter's emergency floats as it landed in thewater and rolled to the right side and capsized, subsequently sinking.
These are all of the ones I knew of as of 2013. I think there have been a few since....
I recall one earlier this year where a boat captain being hoisted broke is leg when the helicopter set him down abruptly in rough seas.
August 31, 2013 - The ATSB is investigating the 31 August2013 accident where a person fell from a winch harness and died while beingwinched on board an Air Ambulance Victoria helicopter near Lake Eildon,Victoria.
July 22, 2013 - On July 22,2013, about 2220 Pacific daylight time (PDT), a rescue officer fell from a BellHH-1H, N233JP, during a rescue hoist operation near Mount Charleston, Nevada.Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department operated the helicopter as apublic-use search and rescue operation under the provisions of 14 Code ofFederal Regulations (CFR) Part 91. The flight crew consisted of two commercialpilots and three crewmen, a crew chief, a hoist operator, and a rescue officer.The rescue officer was fatally injured, the rescued passenger and fourcrewmembers were uninjured; the helicopter sustained no damage. The localpublic-use flight departed North Las Vegas, Nevada, about 2150. Night visualmeteorological conditions prevailed, and no flight plan had been filed.Theoperator reported that during a night time rescue operation, while hoisting acivilian hiker and a rescue officer off the side of a mountain, the rescueofficer fell to his death. The civilian hiker was recovered to the helicopterby use of the helicopter hoist without injury. Subsequent investigations have revealed no equipment malfunctions.
March 3, 2013 A SaudiCivil Defence rescue officer has died after he fell from a helicopter duringthe celebration of the World Civil Defence Day in the capital Riyadh. Reportssaid that First Class Pvt Abdul Aziz Bin Abdullah Al Qah’tani was not able tosurvive the severe injuries and fractures he suffered when he fell on Saturdaymorning in the parking lot of Gharnata Mall.
December 25, 2011 A paramedic has been killed while trying towinch an injured canyoner to safety at Carrington Falls near Wollongong in NSW.It isunderstood that with the injured canyoner strapped to him, Mr Wilson steppedoff a cliff and swung into the ravine so the pair could be winched up into thehelicopter. But they crashed into acliff face opposite and Mr Wilson was pinned between his patient and therock wall. Both men had to be lowered to the ravine floor, police said, wherethe helicopter team was forced to cut the winch line. It is understood that wasdone because Mr Wilson was unable to free himself from the wire. He died soonafter from internal injuries.
November9, 2009 - The Australian TransportSafety Bureau released a final investigative report regarding the November 9,2009 hoisting accident. This accident seriously injured two crew members, whenthe hoist cable failed and they fell approximately 50 ft (16 m) ontodeck of the ship. The event occurred when a Bell 412 operated by Torres StraitAmbulance rendezvoused with a container ship (Maersk Duffield) to evacuate anill crew member.
July 21, 2009 - The purpose of the flight was toconduct proficiency rappel training. During a preflight equipment check, one ofthe rappellers identified a broken "Kong" clip on the Tri-link/J-hookinterface on the harness. He replaced the Kong clip with a rubber O-ring (anauthorized substitution) and then he returned to the helicopter. Minutes later,with the helicopter in a stabilized hover, witnesses on the ground reportedthat they observed the rappeller transition from inside the helicopter to theport side skid, then fall down the rope at excessive speed. Postaccidentexamination of the rope and harness assembly revealed that the rappeller'sJ-hook was attached to the Sky Genie and rope; however, the J-hook was notattached to the Tri-link and harness. A broken O-ring, believed to be theO-ring used to center the Tri-link and J-hook, was found on the groundapproximately 30 feet from where the harness assembly was located. Evidenceobtained during the investigation suggests that the rappeller's Tri-link andJ-hook were not mechanically linked (prior to the rappeller transitioning tothe skid), but rather inadvertently linked together with a non load-bearingO-ring used to center the latching devices. Examination of the J-hook, SkyGenie, Tri-link and harness by investigators from the US Forest Servicerevealed no evidence of malfunction or defect.
The National Transportation SafetyBoard determines the probable cause(s) of this accident to be:
The rappeller'sfailure to properly latch the rappelling harness to the rappelling assemblybefore exiting the helicopter.
Sept 4, 2008 - A helicopter crash that killed a four-member US CoastGuard aircrew last year was caused when a tangled rescue hoist snappedand damaged the rotor blades, according to a report released Friday.The aircrewmanaged to right the helicopter but did not realize that the helicopter was toodamaged to return to land the night of Sept. 4, 2008, according toinvestigators.The Dolphin HH-65 crashed into the Pacific Ocean six miles southof Honolulu International Airport. The service members killed that night wereCmdr. Thomas Nelson, Lt. Cmdr. Andrew Wischmeier, Aviation Survival Technician1st Class David Skimin and Aviation Maintenance Technician 1st Class JoshuaNichols. Nelson, the pilot, was the executive officer at Coast Guard AirStation Barbers Point.
February 10, 2005,an MD-902 helicopter crashed while conducting hoist operations on a containership off Shanghai, China. Three occupants were fatally injured, the pilotsustained serious injuries.
January 10, 2005,about 1312 UTC, a Sikorsky S76C, JA6903, operated by the Japan Coast Guard on atraining mission, experienced a loss ofengine power while hovering over a ship located 28 nautical miles westsouthwest of Niigata Airport (RJSN). The helicopter collided with the shipbefore hitting the water and sinking. The meteorological conditions at the timeare unknown. The helicopter was destroyed and the two pilots, and two of the fourcrewmembers were not injured. The other two crewmembers received serious andminor injuries. It was reported that the helicopter was hovering about 80 feetabove a Coast Guard ship, lowering a hoist cable to pick up a rescuer and adummy from the ship deck when the number 1 engine experienced a loss of power.The hoist cable was cut by a crew member and the pilot tried to maneuver thehelicopter away from the ship. During the descending and evasive maneuver, thehelicopter collided with the bow of the ship with its tail section. The pilotwas unable to deploy the helicopter's emergency floats as it landed in thewater and rolled to the right side and capsized, subsequently sinking.
Originally Posted by [email protected]
John, I think if you talk to pilots who fly the 139 in full SAR role with a normal fuel load - OEI hover isn't an option - it seems to be a bit of an urban myth with the aircraft that is not borne out by reality.
For example - adding FIPS costs about 200kg in payload.
For example - adding FIPS costs about 200kg in payload.
Regardless it is the weapon of choice for Ambulance operations here in Australia, so the operators must have done their sums and considered it the most capable option.
T'was ever thus John - build an aircraft with great performance and the operators will just pile more stuff on until you are back where you started
Flying SAR in pretty basic "phase four" 139 models (No AC, no auto hover, short nose, etc) off Africa's East Coast, we often had an OEI flyaway capability or even OEI hover if the winds were there and roughly an hour to an hour and a half fuel remaining. Obviously it was quite warm. We'd never put a guy out on the line for training without OEI hover capability.
At 25 degrees and 0' PA the max OEI OGE hover weight is 5460kg. The NSW EMS machines with all the medical gear, night sun, etc, are around 5000kg empty weight. Add 4 crew and some fuel and you are obviously too heavy to hover/winch OEI. Live training winches are done at 15' max.
Last edited by Mark Six; 4th Aug 2016 at 21:24.
Interesting that of the 9 incidents in 500guy's post, only two were definitely caused by mechanical/equipment failure (admittedly the initial problem isn't mentioned in every case). Reinforces Crab's point about the need for plenty regular of regular training, so that the rescuers don't end up doing more harm than good.
Winching for so-called public transport are an essential part of the offshore industry and is safe enough if done correctly. Using a MD902 or a S76 is not safe enough. I have lost count of the winching I have done offshore with the 332 using simple principles of operation.
The aircraft MUST be able to maintain an OEI HOGE.
The crew must be proficient and the passengers, which is what they are, must be briefed on what is happening and what they must do to ensure their safety.
No short cuts, no 'that'll do, if the situation doesn't fit the bill fly away.
An example is winching a Mooring Crew on to and off a tanker which is offloading an FPSO. Impractical by boat, one of the reasons being that the first transfer can be 30 minutes sailing time away. After the tanker has loaded the crew are picked up after the tanker is at full speed owing to the time to do the paperwork.
ONCE, somebody, not our company, decided to land a 332 on the deck because the area was big enough even though it had WINCHING ONLY painted on it. The crap hit the fan. The ships deck isn't stressed for helicopters up to 6.7 tons so the deck had to be inspected in a dockyard. You try getting under the main deck of a tanker.
The picture is taken 120 naut. miles offshore, about 15 knots wind plus five knots on the tanker; 30 degrees, 1500lbs of fuel, well within the OEI curve.
The aircraft MUST be able to maintain an OEI HOGE.
The crew must be proficient and the passengers, which is what they are, must be briefed on what is happening and what they must do to ensure their safety.
No short cuts, no 'that'll do, if the situation doesn't fit the bill fly away.
An example is winching a Mooring Crew on to and off a tanker which is offloading an FPSO. Impractical by boat, one of the reasons being that the first transfer can be 30 minutes sailing time away. After the tanker has loaded the crew are picked up after the tanker is at full speed owing to the time to do the paperwork.
ONCE, somebody, not our company, decided to land a 332 on the deck because the area was big enough even though it had WINCHING ONLY painted on it. The crap hit the fan. The ships deck isn't stressed for helicopters up to 6.7 tons so the deck had to be inspected in a dockyard. You try getting under the main deck of a tanker.
The picture is taken 120 naut. miles offshore, about 15 knots wind plus five knots on the tanker; 30 degrees, 1500lbs of fuel, well within the OEI curve.
Last edited by Fareastdriver; 6th Aug 2016 at 07:10.
So 120 nm is not much off an hour's flight and the aircraft burns circa 1000lb/hr with perhaps an MLA of 100lbs - it doesn't leave you much time on station does it? And the ship is bound to be steaming away from land!
With 20 kts across the disc and only 1.5 hours of fuel left, even a Sea King would be OEI in the hover at that temp
Mark six - did you mean max OGE hover at 5460kg or max OEI OGE hover?
With 20 kts across the disc and only 1.5 hours of fuel left, even a Sea King would be OEI in the hover at that temp
Mark six - did you mean max OGE hover at 5460kg or max OEI OGE hover?
Recounting the hoist accidents that were in twins where AEO power didn't even make the difference let alone OEI ability there is a case of a UH-1N (woefully underpowered at altitude) and a UH-60 accident that bear mentioning. The twin Huey accident was in Yosimite National Park, CA in June of 2002 (LTE) and the Hawk accident was on Mount Hood , oddly enough , in May of 2002. They are both involve exceeding the machines envelope in an effort to get the job done. When rescuers get injured or die in the course of trying to help people who got into trouble trying to have fun I can only hope the victims stay away from that particular type of fun if they survive. It is doubly unfortunate and another issue all together when accidents happen rescuing people who don't really need aerial rescue but because we have the capability and the mission drive, we go anyway. The issue of the cost burden, even for rescues that go flawlessly, is yet another topic that is not often discussed (at least in the US). Big difference between snagging someone on a foundering fishing trawler compared to a hiker that gets dehydrated and forgot to bring snacks and water, pulls out their cell phone and gets a ride home (believe me , they get hauled out frequently in the US). Risk assessment is probably more critical in aerial rescue than any other non-military aspect of aviation.