Helicopter crash Breighton aerodrome

[PoacherNowGamekeeper]

One could look upon certain aircraft types being put on a foreign register when operating in a different country as using a 'flag of convenience'.

Whilst there may have been an element of that here, I understand that the aircraft was HA registered because all the expertise in maintaining this type was in Hungary. That's fair enough.

The AAIB's investigation will be interesting to follow and this comes quite soon after the CAA's ongoing work, subsequent to an AAIB Safety Rec, concerning the operation of foreign registered aircraft based in the UK.

The investigation will hopefully be assisted by the accounts of the survivors, having witnessed those last few seconds before impact.

[[email protected]]

5-up doing quickstops on a warm day would certainly have tested the quality of the maintenance, foreign or otherwise.

[chopjock]

5-up doing quickstops on a warm day would certainly have tested the quality of the maintenance, foreign or otherwise.

Unless it was windy of course, then pretty much just a flare required eh?

[SilsoeSid]

5-up doing quickstops on a warm day would certainly have tested the quality of the maintenance, foreign or otherwise.

Unless it was windy of course, then pretty much just a flare required eh?

How windy would that need to be then chodjock?

METAR/SPECI from EGNJ, Humberside (United Kingdom).

METAR EGNJ 172050Z AUTO 32004KT 9999 NCD 18/12 Q1021=

METAR EGNJ 172020Z 27007KT CAVOK 19/12 Q1020=

METAR EGNJ 171950Z 27007KT CAVOK 20/12 Q1020=

METAR EGNJ 171920Z 28010KT CAVOK 22/12 Q1020=

METAR EGNJ 171850Z 28011KT CAVOK 22/12 Q1020=

METAR EGNJ 171820Z 29009KT CAVOK 23/11 Q1020=

METAR EGNJ 171750Z 28010KT CAVOK 24/10 Q1020=

METAR EGNJ 171720Z 27010KT 230V290 CAVOK 24/12 Q1019=

METAR EGNJ 171650Z 28011KT CAVOK 24/12 Q1019=

METAR EGNJ 171620Z 29010KT 260V320 CAVOK 24/12 Q1019=

[EESDL]

SS

Thanks for that - being 3-days behind the curve is quite good for me!
The disadvantage of using a small screen ;-)

[Hughes500]

What has the quality of the maintenance to do with having 5 up doing quicksteps. ??????? I would suggest it has more to do with pilot skills.

[[email protected]]

I don't know about you but if something goes bang and there is a crash then I would be looking towards mechanical failure - hence the quality of maintenance might be an issue.

The end of a quickstop - especially when heavy - puts a lot of strain on the whole engine and transmission system - high power, lots of pedal etc.

If it was just pilot error then maintenance clearly won't be an issue. I don't know what sort of pilot he was.

[SilsoeSid]

Chodjock,

Unless it was windy of course, then pretty much just a flare required eh?

Will this wind strength, turning the quickstop into a mere flare; need to be lesser or greater than the translational lift airspeed

[chopjock]

Sid

Will this wind strength, turning the quickstop into a mere flare; need to be lesser or greater than the translational lift airspeed

Even you should know the answer to that.
Clearly if it is windy, say 30kts or so, quick stops are much less of a strain on the mechanics than if there is no wind at all, assuming heading into the wind that is.
Not knowing the wind on the day though, my statement was generic, trying to balance out a one sided statement about it being a warm day and thus hard on the quality of maintenance.
The A2 has a big engine I believe, fully capable for load lifting perhaps?
I'm guessing 5 up, a warm day, 10kts of wind, power should not be a problem. What was the fuel load?, probably light I should think, coming in to an airfield.
Could it be fuel was so light the engine sucked air during the flare?

[SilsoeSid]

Clearly if it is windy, say 30kts or so, quick stops are much less of a strain on the mechanics than if there is no wind at all, assuming heading into the wind that is.

Just a couple of things; what happens at the end of a flare? and the one I'd really like you to answer without googling, how do you think a downwind quickstop is executed?

[chopjock]

what happens at the end of a flare?

er you stop. Obviously lots of power, pitch and pedal required, even more if in warm, still air.

how do you think a downwind quickstop is executed?

Carefully! requiring a little more height and power I should think, better still, avoid it.!

Why are you asking? Do you think I may not know how to fly?

We are going off thread here Sid...

[SilsoeSid]

Could it be fuel was so light the engine sucked air during the flare?

So we can add to the list;

Chopjock - Fuel starvation during the final stages of a quick stop.

[whoknows idont]

Where I come from, a quick stop is still considered an emergency procedure. Can we just grant the guy the benefit of the doubt and assume that the trouble would have started before the alleged quick stop?

[SilsoeSid]

... or just as it was coming to completion.

I hear he did a quick stop , came to the hover and there was a Bang ...next thing it was on the ground .

[[email protected]]

Where I come from, a quick stop is still considered an emergency procedure

for many of us, it is a basic general handling manoeuvre, used as a method of going from fast cruise to position for landing.

[whoknows idont]

I'm just saying that it's a bit too easy to conclude that the quick stop was the origin of the emergency. Could well be that he executed the quick stop to react to something going kaput, couldn't it?

[B47]

Sid. I'm sitting here in a bar at Oshkosh (made it eventually after twenty years of trying), had a fantastic week enjoying the true joyous spirit of aviation, but with many thoughts (and,frankly, the odd tear) for our friend Nigel. Me, with nearly thirty years of rotary experience but with great humility to what I'm certain I don't know, and of listening to your superior experience and put-downs, and resisting any response, since the day Pprune started, with this thread you have crossed the line. Your insistence on desperately needing to impose your supposed experience and technical superiority are, frankly, offensive. Buy a mirror. Or listen to those around you - for once. Show some ****** respect to our friend Nigel please. Hijacking this thread to encourage speculation, technical, pilot error, wind/weather, w/b, you name it.. on the cause of his death is disgraceful. And don't you dare respond. I won't join you in that gutter. I've learned one thing in thirty years of flying - ATTITUDE, not the thickness of your logbook, is everything. Humility is a key ingredient.

[tistisnot]

B47 ....... where's the Like, Love, Wow emoticon thingy!

[SilsoeSid]

B47,

I think you'll find that there are eight different contributors here that have speculated on a cause, whereas I have not.
Please be more specific as to where I have done this as it appears to me that you haven't read the thread.

I refer you in particular to posts 94 & 99.


p.s. PPRuNe 'started' in 1996, I didn't join until 2002

[[email protected]]

whoknowsidont - if you had any malfunction that you thought serious, I suggest the last thing you would do is try to bring the aircraft to a high hover when an immediate landing was possible.

The suggestion was that the extra power, pedal etc required at the end of a quickstop, might well have been what caused component failure - if that indeed was what caused this unfortunate crash.

B47 - I understand your pain and I think all posters here feel for someone who has lost a friend but speculation about causes of accidents is what happens on pprune - it's human nature. As usually happens, the original thread splits into two, one for condolences and one for speculation/analysis. If the speculation thread upsets you, don't read it.

Everything I have read here points to the fact that Nigel was a well-liked chap and it is always sad to lose one of the good guys - many of us who served in the military have played that scene out often enough - as, I am sure, has Sid.