Offshore operations - maximum flying hours
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Without those worthless cowboy utility pilots (that didn't pass the offshore pilot-selection),
..sitting back monitoring systems.
DB
have you even seen a line much less flown one ?
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Yes I flown a line, HEMS POLICE CHARTER MIL SAR like many other posters on pprune and i have endless respect for utility pilots..........but the original Q was about offshore ops.
I have a clear view of what is safe and acceptable and some of the limits claimed here cannot be considered in those terms.
I never said we work overly hard offshore. The rules are there to protect the pax and of course that in turn protects the crew.
I hope, give the "cushy" life I have now that my cockpit manner reflects the conditions I enjoy.
As for the "six" stripes, my sloping shoulders could not possibly accommodate that many but I do like badges though!
Maybe I just get my coat...........
Good sparring with you utility boys and stay safe!
I have a clear view of what is safe and acceptable and some of the limits claimed here cannot be considered in those terms.
I never said we work overly hard offshore. The rules are there to protect the pax and of course that in turn protects the crew.
I hope, give the "cushy" life I have now that my cockpit manner reflects the conditions I enjoy.
As for the "six" stripes, my sloping shoulders could not possibly accommodate that many but I do like badges though!
Maybe I just get my coat...........
Good sparring with you utility boys and stay safe!
"Just a pilot"
Double Bogey said:
Newfieboy........... (...)I mean really. 10 hours flying and 14 hours duty. Who in hell would insure that!
A lot of operations self insure.
The question, seeing as you long line utility heros missed it! Was about offshore flying. That's moving live things....humans. Not lumps of conrete and freight.
Offshore does external loads as well, although not typically long line.
Eight hours a day single pilot isn't/wasn't unusual, I'd do it a couple times a month. The fatigue gets to the chronic stage with only 10 hours rest and 120 hours of flying in 30 days...
Newfieboy........... (...)I mean really. 10 hours flying and 14 hours duty. Who in hell would insure that!
A lot of operations self insure.
The question, seeing as you long line utility heros missed it! Was about offshore flying. That's moving live things....humans. Not lumps of conrete and freight.
Offshore does external loads as well, although not typically long line.
Eight hours a day single pilot isn't/wasn't unusual, I'd do it a couple times a month. The fatigue gets to the chronic stage with only 10 hours rest and 120 hours of flying in 30 days...
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How could it not be insurable, when it's within the legal limits? Ten hours flight time, in 14 hours multicrew, is entirely legal, at least under FAA Part 135. It's not an everyday thing, but not uncommon on some jobs. Oil companies cut corners at every opportunity, and will almost always use the lowest number of aircraft possible. Helicopter operators don't want to hire any more pilots than absolutely necessary. I'm not sure I would want to ride in the back seat with a crew that was into its tenth hour of flight time that day, but the only other choice is quitting. I didn't like doing it, but the only other choice was quitting. Losing one's job is serious business. Obviously I should have crossed over the pond and found a cushy job in the North Sea, where I wouldn't have had to fly so much. I've also hit the 8 hour limit many times single pilot, and the 14 hour duty day was very common, going from sunup to sundown in the summer, not including preflight and postflight. It's lift the skids as the sun starts to peek above the water, and don't quit until it's gone. Every day. Things have probably changed by now, but the bottomfeeder operators still try to push things, I'm certain. And there are lots of bottomfeeder oil companies out there.
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I left off-shore in 1999 when we were all knocking hard on the rolling 800 hours in 365 days. Double Bogeys 5-6 hours per day was the norm then, but in the early 1990's I did an overseas contract, local registered aircraft, local rules,local licenses, when I logged 740 hours in six months. That was in S61s (no aircon, (well less than a thousand miles north of the equator) concrete seats, no active headsets and pretty much no idea of performance or any form of local legal protection and some really nice local guys in the left seat. When our team got back the company had to leave us off the roster for a couple of months on full pay to get us back legal under home rules.
Now I average 300-350 per year, but it feels far more tiring (although I am a lot older) flying SPIFR corporate around northern Europe and the UK. There is very little advance notice of what a task will be and a lot of variables in the tasking, that takes a lot of the drudgery of off-shore away and it was the drudgery of 5-6 hours (on a rare occasion 8 hours) in an immersion suit that I found most fatiguing.
A lot of ops personnel don't realise that off-shore the need to be right at the very top of your game comes on departure and arrival and at any time you are shuttling. That sudden change from relaxed, proffesional cockpit in the cruise to high levels of concentration in busy airspace with weather at minima was the point of a study into pilot fatigue many years ago and is one of the reasons why UK FTLs are as stringent as they are, also while bean counters don't understand flying, crewing will always be at bare minimum, and the bean counters will continue to have a huge impact on an area they don't understand.
As an aside the company I worked for off-shore brought in some management consultants. They were priceless, one asked why we flew twins when surely singles were more economical, another came to me one day after I had flown two trips to the Fulmar in a 332 and stated that a S61 flight was needed, there were no 61 pilots available, but as I was 61 rated I should fly it (I hadn't sat in one for three years) This was a year into their management study and input, he proved in that year he had learned the square root of sod all.
SND
Now I average 300-350 per year, but it feels far more tiring (although I am a lot older) flying SPIFR corporate around northern Europe and the UK. There is very little advance notice of what a task will be and a lot of variables in the tasking, that takes a lot of the drudgery of off-shore away and it was the drudgery of 5-6 hours (on a rare occasion 8 hours) in an immersion suit that I found most fatiguing.
A lot of ops personnel don't realise that off-shore the need to be right at the very top of your game comes on departure and arrival and at any time you are shuttling. That sudden change from relaxed, proffesional cockpit in the cruise to high levels of concentration in busy airspace with weather at minima was the point of a study into pilot fatigue many years ago and is one of the reasons why UK FTLs are as stringent as they are, also while bean counters don't understand flying, crewing will always be at bare minimum, and the bean counters will continue to have a huge impact on an area they don't understand.
As an aside the company I worked for off-shore brought in some management consultants. They were priceless, one asked why we flew twins when surely singles were more economical, another came to me one day after I had flown two trips to the Fulmar in a 332 and stated that a S61 flight was needed, there were no 61 pilots available, but as I was 61 rated I should fly it (I hadn't sat in one for three years) This was a year into their management study and input, he proved in that year he had learned the square root of sod all.
SND
Last edited by Sir Niall Dementia; 18th Jun 2015 at 07:47. Reason: worms and smelling
