Australian ATPL(H) conversion to EASA Equivalent
Join Date: Nov 2000
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You could either send yourself to sleep with the FCL regulations or have a read through CAP 804 (from the UK CAA), which has a better plot 
Otherwise, please feel free to ask. I will be at a meeting in May about revising the Learning Objectives, and I will take the opportunity to ask about cross licensing. One airline in Canada seems to have a concession with regard to EASA.
Phil
Otherwise, please feel free to ask. I will be at a meeting in May about revising the Learning Objectives, and I will take the opportunity to ask about cross licensing. One airline in Canada seems to have a concession with regard to EASA.
Phil
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Actually, plenty if you're talking about navigation rather than pilotage. I use convergency, departure etc. all the time in N Alberta.
Don't forget that Nav also includes compasses, time zones etc.
phil
Don't forget that Nav also includes compasses, time zones etc.
phil
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The info being given here is correct!
I just went through the ICAO CPL(H) to EASA conversion process in the UK with licences from NZ, Austraila and the US, and well over 10,000 hrs PIC helicopter.
Here what you have to do, there's no way round it!
There are some paperwork hoops you have to jump through, but the main elements of the conversion are:
* Undertake an EASA approved Theoretical Knowledge course at an EASA Approved Training Organisation, which includes 2 individual weeks of consolidation at the school facility
* Take and pass all 13 x Theoretical Knowledge Examinations, 14 for ATPL
FYI, there are restrictions on the number of times you can take each individual exam; fail any exam 4 times and you start the whole process all over again. No credit given for the TKEs you've already taken and passed and back to school you must go, so think seriously about in what order you want to take the exams, and make sure you know your stuff for each exam. I used CAPT as my training school and managed to avoid any retakes (many thanks Phil/Paco!)
Of all the "new" (read irrelevant) stuff I learned in the hundreds of hours of home study undertaken to ensure the exams were passed timely for the above reasons, I have since put just one solitary thing to occasional good use. The rest can, and already has been dumped!
* 1st class EASA medical (for the UK it can only be taken at CAA House, Gatwick)
* Flight training as required for the skill test
FYI again, you must be recommended to EASA for the skill test by the Head of Training of the flight school, and EASA must approve that recommendation before you can take the skill test, which might be a sticking point if you try to limit the training as required to just 2.1 hrs to save money!
* Take and pass the skill test.
Good luck if you are going to convert to EASA, you'll need it if you don't put in hundreds of hours of mind numbing unecessary work, and expense naturally! Study course fees, test prep questions (hightly rcommended,) hotel bills, food expenses, multiple commercial flights and/or rental car costs, TK exam fees, flight training (~ 5 hrs is acceptble to EASA,) skill test examiner fees, and licence issuance fees of course!
I just went through the ICAO CPL(H) to EASA conversion process in the UK with licences from NZ, Austraila and the US, and well over 10,000 hrs PIC helicopter.
Here what you have to do, there's no way round it!
There are some paperwork hoops you have to jump through, but the main elements of the conversion are:
* Undertake an EASA approved Theoretical Knowledge course at an EASA Approved Training Organisation, which includes 2 individual weeks of consolidation at the school facility
* Take and pass all 13 x Theoretical Knowledge Examinations, 14 for ATPL
FYI, there are restrictions on the number of times you can take each individual exam; fail any exam 4 times and you start the whole process all over again. No credit given for the TKEs you've already taken and passed and back to school you must go, so think seriously about in what order you want to take the exams, and make sure you know your stuff for each exam. I used CAPT as my training school and managed to avoid any retakes (many thanks Phil/Paco!)
Of all the "new" (read irrelevant) stuff I learned in the hundreds of hours of home study undertaken to ensure the exams were passed timely for the above reasons, I have since put just one solitary thing to occasional good use. The rest can, and already has been dumped!
* 1st class EASA medical (for the UK it can only be taken at CAA House, Gatwick)
* Flight training as required for the skill test
FYI again, you must be recommended to EASA for the skill test by the Head of Training of the flight school, and EASA must approve that recommendation before you can take the skill test, which might be a sticking point if you try to limit the training as required to just 2.1 hrs to save money!
* Take and pass the skill test.
Good luck if you are going to convert to EASA, you'll need it if you don't put in hundreds of hours of mind numbing unecessary work, and expense naturally! Study course fees, test prep questions (hightly rcommended,) hotel bills, food expenses, multiple commercial flights and/or rental car costs, TK exam fees, flight training (~ 5 hrs is acceptble to EASA,) skill test examiner fees, and licence issuance fees of course!
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Thanks AK,
Up and coming helicopter pilots in Europe are probably reading this thread with a sense of security. Foreign ATPL holder's contemplating working in the EU are given very few concessions, while an EASA ATPL can attract generous concessions in countries like Australia.
I'm looking at the investment in time and money required to get an EASA licence as just another stage of my career as a pilot. I'm yet to crunch the numbers to see if it is worth it, and I'll post the results when I get the chance.
This thread has prepared me for the slice of humble pie that the ATO has waiting for me though. I'll look for professional recognition of my training and experience when engaging EU employers, not the training organisations.
H-D
Up and coming helicopter pilots in Europe are probably reading this thread with a sense of security. Foreign ATPL holder's contemplating working in the EU are given very few concessions, while an EASA ATPL can attract generous concessions in countries like Australia.
I'm looking at the investment in time and money required to get an EASA licence as just another stage of my career as a pilot. I'm yet to crunch the numbers to see if it is worth it, and I'll post the results when I get the chance.
This thread has prepared me for the slice of humble pie that the ATO has waiting for me though. I'll look for professional recognition of my training and experience when engaging EU employers, not the training organisations.
H-D
HD , it doesn't matter about your experience , you don't pass the exams - no licence ...
The casa ATPL H theory coverage is 1 foot deep and 1 mile wide
The EASA ATPL H theory coverage is 1cm deep and 1000 miles wide
There are no short cuts ....
The casa ATPL H theory coverage is 1 foot deep and 1 mile wide
The EASA ATPL H theory coverage is 1cm deep and 1000 miles wide
There are no short cuts ....
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I think you may have misinterpreted my intent mate...
If I decide to do the exams and get my EASA licence, I understand that I will be treated as a PPL pilot when I approach a training organisation. I'm not expecting any shortcuts here.
But if I do get my EASA licence, thats when my previous training and experience becomes important, because that's what employers are looking for - they will recognise my pre-EASA flying!
If I decide to do the exams and get my EASA licence, I understand that I will be treated as a PPL pilot when I approach a training organisation. I'm not expecting any shortcuts here.
But if I do get my EASA licence, thats when my previous training and experience becomes important, because that's what employers are looking for - they will recognise my pre-EASA flying!
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You are welcome H-D!
I am going to throw a curved ball at you here. You can fly in EASA land on an EASA issued Validation of your foreign licence for limited period of time, but there are restrictions of course. You never really get anything for free in aviation!
An EASA 1st class medical, a bunch of correctly completed paperwork including sending (or taking) all your log books to the Aviation Authority in the country in which you wish to fly, and a paid fee of course may/should get you a 12 month Validation of your ICAO CPL(H) or ATPL(H).
Once the Validation is issued, you may fly commercially in EASA land until the expiry date of that Validation, but you may only fly commercial Aerial Work (read utility) and you may not fly passengers (apart from employees of the company for whom you fly - they are not considered to be passengers!)
Before your initial Validation expires, and only if you are enrolled on an approved theoretical knowledge course at an EASA Approved Training Organisation, and can prove that you really are working towards converting your ICAO licence to EASA and not just trying to get a freebie ride in EASA land for a few more months, your Validation may be extended a further once only and for a further limited time; the length of which is at the mercy of the Aviation Authority in that country. Expect 3 - 6 months, buy a lottery ticket if you get 12.
By the expiry date of that extension, EASA firmly believes you will have had sufficient time to convert your licence, and a further extension will not be entertained. You may claim that extreme circumstances have prevailed and that you wish to contest the length of extension afforded to you; this can be done citing point 2, Annex III, A. Commission Regulation (EU) No 1178/2011 which states that "...the extension shall cover the period of time necessary for the licence to be issued in accordance with Part-FCL", however, it seems that each Authority within EASA has an "interpretation of the rule" card they sometimes like to play, so good luck with that!
The ICAO to EASA conversion is lengthy, of that there is no doubt. However, a lot can be done to prepare for the conversion before hand. There's nothing stopping you from buying the conversion course books, getting your head into them in a big way, doing all the hard yards in your spare time waiting at a rig, or when it's a down day for weather, then nipping over to EASA land for a 3 week holiday and doing the 2 week long consolidation courses back to back if it can be arranged, then sitting all 13/14 exams in one go during the last week of your holiday!
From there, you'll know which exams you've passed and can forget, and can concentrate on the ones you blew for your next trip over. You never know, you might pass them all first time, it's been done plenty of times before - maybe not in one sitting though..!
Out of interest, you can now sit UK based EASA Theoretical Knowledge E-Exams at Jerez in Spain, Orlando in the US, and Sepang in Malaysia. Other countries may follow in due course, contact the UK CAA for more information.
From there, once you have all 13/14 exams passed, you can knock the flight training and skill test out in 2 weeks easily. All the small piston engined aircraft are available in the UK, plus 206s, 350s, 355s, 109s, and maybe 500s. 135s are in country for training of course, but I don't think they are currently available for commercial skill tests as they have to be operated by the CPL(H) ATO, and on their books for CPL(H) training and examination!
BTW, the training organisation will respect and treat you as a CPL/ATPL, just not a licenced one in their country. Their mission is to polish you to be able to pass the EASA skill test under the guideline "training as required". Expect 4 - 7 hours unless you are already a qualified CFI/TRI/TRE/FX on type in the local area!
The oral part of the skill test examination is fairly non existent so to speak, there is no major quizzing like in other countries, however the examiner can ask you any question pertaining to the preparation of your pre-flight paperwork, the weather, etc, and of course the skill test flight itself.
For the skill test, the navigation section is 3 parted and 1/2 the skill test battle, the rest is general handling, both emergency and non-emergency.
Start honing your skills on using a map again, including how to unfold and refold it whilst flying as a GPS is not allowed during the test (apart from the diversion part of the nav-ex.) If there is no GPS physically installed and hard mounted in the aircraft in which you take the test, tough, an auxiliary GPS is not allowed!
Hope that helps a little more.
Fly Safe!
I am going to throw a curved ball at you here. You can fly in EASA land on an EASA issued Validation of your foreign licence for limited period of time, but there are restrictions of course. You never really get anything for free in aviation!
An EASA 1st class medical, a bunch of correctly completed paperwork including sending (or taking) all your log books to the Aviation Authority in the country in which you wish to fly, and a paid fee of course may/should get you a 12 month Validation of your ICAO CPL(H) or ATPL(H).
Once the Validation is issued, you may fly commercially in EASA land until the expiry date of that Validation, but you may only fly commercial Aerial Work (read utility) and you may not fly passengers (apart from employees of the company for whom you fly - they are not considered to be passengers!)
Before your initial Validation expires, and only if you are enrolled on an approved theoretical knowledge course at an EASA Approved Training Organisation, and can prove that you really are working towards converting your ICAO licence to EASA and not just trying to get a freebie ride in EASA land for a few more months, your Validation may be extended a further once only and for a further limited time; the length of which is at the mercy of the Aviation Authority in that country. Expect 3 - 6 months, buy a lottery ticket if you get 12.
By the expiry date of that extension, EASA firmly believes you will have had sufficient time to convert your licence, and a further extension will not be entertained. You may claim that extreme circumstances have prevailed and that you wish to contest the length of extension afforded to you; this can be done citing point 2, Annex III, A. Commission Regulation (EU) No 1178/2011 which states that "...the extension shall cover the period of time necessary for the licence to be issued in accordance with Part-FCL", however, it seems that each Authority within EASA has an "interpretation of the rule" card they sometimes like to play, so good luck with that!
The ICAO to EASA conversion is lengthy, of that there is no doubt. However, a lot can be done to prepare for the conversion before hand. There's nothing stopping you from buying the conversion course books, getting your head into them in a big way, doing all the hard yards in your spare time waiting at a rig, or when it's a down day for weather, then nipping over to EASA land for a 3 week holiday and doing the 2 week long consolidation courses back to back if it can be arranged, then sitting all 13/14 exams in one go during the last week of your holiday!
From there, you'll know which exams you've passed and can forget, and can concentrate on the ones you blew for your next trip over. You never know, you might pass them all first time, it's been done plenty of times before - maybe not in one sitting though..!
Out of interest, you can now sit UK based EASA Theoretical Knowledge E-Exams at Jerez in Spain, Orlando in the US, and Sepang in Malaysia. Other countries may follow in due course, contact the UK CAA for more information.
From there, once you have all 13/14 exams passed, you can knock the flight training and skill test out in 2 weeks easily. All the small piston engined aircraft are available in the UK, plus 206s, 350s, 355s, 109s, and maybe 500s. 135s are in country for training of course, but I don't think they are currently available for commercial skill tests as they have to be operated by the CPL(H) ATO, and on their books for CPL(H) training and examination!
BTW, the training organisation will respect and treat you as a CPL/ATPL, just not a licenced one in their country. Their mission is to polish you to be able to pass the EASA skill test under the guideline "training as required". Expect 4 - 7 hours unless you are already a qualified CFI/TRI/TRE/FX on type in the local area!
The oral part of the skill test examination is fairly non existent so to speak, there is no major quizzing like in other countries, however the examiner can ask you any question pertaining to the preparation of your pre-flight paperwork, the weather, etc, and of course the skill test flight itself.
For the skill test, the navigation section is 3 parted and 1/2 the skill test battle, the rest is general handling, both emergency and non-emergency.
Start honing your skills on using a map again, including how to unfold and refold it whilst flying as a GPS is not allowed during the test (apart from the diversion part of the nav-ex.) If there is no GPS physically installed and hard mounted in the aircraft in which you take the test, tough, an auxiliary GPS is not allowed!
Hope that helps a little more.
Fly Safe!
