Fatal R-44 crash Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
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Fatal R-44 crash Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
Witness reports are of mid-flight tail separation:
2 dead after helicopter crashes into building in North Salt Lake | The Salt Lake Tribune
(Trent Nelson | The Salt Lake Tribune) The tail rotor from a crashed helicopter sits roped off in a parking lot as a medical helicopter takes off at the scene of a helicopter crash near 500 West 900 North in North Salt Lake, Tuesday December 2, 2014.
2 men killed in North Salt Lake helicopter crash had 'huge passion' for flying | Deseret News
Investigators look down on the remains of a helicopter that crashed onto an empty building Tuesday afternoon, killing two men on board, Wednesday, Dec. 3, 2014, in North Salt Lake. (Tom Smart, Deseret News)
2 dead after helicopter crashes into building in North Salt Lake | The Salt Lake Tribune
The tail rotor from the helicopter was about 250 to 300 feet from the building, and debris from the crash was spread along 900 North.
"We know that we have debris at least a half-mile northeast of the crash site," Black said.
"We know that we have debris at least a half-mile northeast of the crash site," Black said.
2 men killed in North Salt Lake helicopter crash had 'huge passion' for flying | Deseret News
By Morgan Jacobsen, Deseret News Published: Wednesday, Dec. 3 2014 6:45 p.m. MST
Updated: Thursday, Dec. 4 2014
NORTH SALT LAKE — Many questions remain unanswered after a helicopter crashed into a building in North Salt Lake on Tuesday, killing two men.
But this much is clear: Claus Hauer and Bruce Orr died doing what they loved.
"They had a huge passion for aviation, a huge following of people here at the airport and other airports. A lot of people knew who they were," said Chris Volzer, who oversees incoming and departing aircraft at Skypark Airport in Woods Cross. "Probably some of the nicest people, good-hearted people."
But their love for flying and experience with aircraft makes it harder for those who know them to understand what went wrong.
"We're in a dazed state. Surreal. We're waiting for information," Orr's son Brian Orr said Wednesday. "Today is a day of walking around not knowing what to do."
The two men took off from Skypark Airport in a Robinson R-44 helicopter and crashed onto the roof of a building at 501 W. 900 North just before 2 p.m, according to Federal Aviation Administration spokesman Allen Kenitzer.
Ben Tidswell, the pilot for KSL Chopper 5 and "close personal friend" of Hauer and Orr, was sitting in his helicopter at the airport when he saw the helicopter fly by, followed by sounds of mechanical failure.
"I watched the helicopter pass by in front of me then go out of sight behind some buildings, and I could still hear the helicopter flying," Tidswell said. "Then I heard 'wink, wink, wink,' and then nothing at all. The engine noise went away; the rotor blade noise went away. There was no noise at all. … Generally, if the sound goes away, that's a problem."
Seconds later, Tidswell's mechanic opened the helicopter door and told him he had seen the helicopter break apart midflight.
"So we jumped in cars and went over there and looked at all the wreckage sitting everywhere," Tidswell said.
Other witnesses also reported seeing the aircraft fall apart in the sky.
Volzer said the two men were well-known among local aviators, who mourn their deaths.
"It's a very tight community," he said. "If anything happens, good or bad, it spreads fast because it's a very, very close community."
The bodies of Hauer and Orr were pulled from the wreckage Tuesday night, according to North Salt Lake police. No one on the ground was injured, but the building sustained significant damage.
On Wednesday, the flight's purpose, the original condition of the aircraft and the cause of the crash were all unclear.
"I don't think it's worth speculating," Tidswell said. "I would say this: It is incredibly rare for any kind of aircraft, whether it be helicopter or fixed-wing, to break up in flight like that. There's going to be a lot of questions that need to be answered."
The National Transportation Safety Board is investigating the crash in conjunction with the Federal Aviation Administration and the helicopter's manufacturer. Investigators were taking GPS plots of the wreckage and gathering witness statements Wednesday, according to National Transportation Safety Board spokesman Andrew Swick.
Swick said a preliminary report will be completed within a week with basic information and witness statements. But a final report with the official determination of what caused the crash could take as long as 18 months to complete, he said.
Investigators are considering elements such as weather, human factors, safety of flight, maintenance backgrounds and the pilot's experience, Swick said.
"Right now, we're just gathering those facts," he said. "Witness statements are coming in. Once we look at those, we'll assess what we have."
Updated: Thursday, Dec. 4 2014
NORTH SALT LAKE — Many questions remain unanswered after a helicopter crashed into a building in North Salt Lake on Tuesday, killing two men.
But this much is clear: Claus Hauer and Bruce Orr died doing what they loved.
"They had a huge passion for aviation, a huge following of people here at the airport and other airports. A lot of people knew who they were," said Chris Volzer, who oversees incoming and departing aircraft at Skypark Airport in Woods Cross. "Probably some of the nicest people, good-hearted people."
But their love for flying and experience with aircraft makes it harder for those who know them to understand what went wrong.
"We're in a dazed state. Surreal. We're waiting for information," Orr's son Brian Orr said Wednesday. "Today is a day of walking around not knowing what to do."
The two men took off from Skypark Airport in a Robinson R-44 helicopter and crashed onto the roof of a building at 501 W. 900 North just before 2 p.m, according to Federal Aviation Administration spokesman Allen Kenitzer.
Ben Tidswell, the pilot for KSL Chopper 5 and "close personal friend" of Hauer and Orr, was sitting in his helicopter at the airport when he saw the helicopter fly by, followed by sounds of mechanical failure.
"I watched the helicopter pass by in front of me then go out of sight behind some buildings, and I could still hear the helicopter flying," Tidswell said. "Then I heard 'wink, wink, wink,' and then nothing at all. The engine noise went away; the rotor blade noise went away. There was no noise at all. … Generally, if the sound goes away, that's a problem."
Seconds later, Tidswell's mechanic opened the helicopter door and told him he had seen the helicopter break apart midflight.
"So we jumped in cars and went over there and looked at all the wreckage sitting everywhere," Tidswell said.
Other witnesses also reported seeing the aircraft fall apart in the sky.
Volzer said the two men were well-known among local aviators, who mourn their deaths.
"It's a very tight community," he said. "If anything happens, good or bad, it spreads fast because it's a very, very close community."
The bodies of Hauer and Orr were pulled from the wreckage Tuesday night, according to North Salt Lake police. No one on the ground was injured, but the building sustained significant damage.
On Wednesday, the flight's purpose, the original condition of the aircraft and the cause of the crash were all unclear.
"I don't think it's worth speculating," Tidswell said. "I would say this: It is incredibly rare for any kind of aircraft, whether it be helicopter or fixed-wing, to break up in flight like that. There's going to be a lot of questions that need to be answered."
The National Transportation Safety Board is investigating the crash in conjunction with the Federal Aviation Administration and the helicopter's manufacturer. Investigators were taking GPS plots of the wreckage and gathering witness statements Wednesday, according to National Transportation Safety Board spokesman Andrew Swick.
Swick said a preliminary report will be completed within a week with basic information and witness statements. But a final report with the official determination of what caused the crash could take as long as 18 months to complete, he said.
Investigators are considering elements such as weather, human factors, safety of flight, maintenance backgrounds and the pilot's experience, Swick said.
"Right now, we're just gathering those facts," he said. "Witness statements are coming in. Once we look at those, we'll assess what we have."
Hmmmm. broke up in mid-air???? That tail boom looks just like it has been severed by a MR blade and there are lots of reasons that could have happened, not just a mechanical failure.
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Crab,
You did read the account where a Helicopter Mechanic observed the Aircraft come apart in the air? His comment did not mention any unusual maneuver.
At this time, although you are factually correct, I would suggest speculating on any cause is premature.
Can we just accept the fact there was a tragic event that took the lives of two Pilots and it shall be investigated and reported upon.
As accurate and relevant information is released....then folks can start the "Speculation Game" but at least it can be based upon something of substance.
You did read the account where a Helicopter Mechanic observed the Aircraft come apart in the air? His comment did not mention any unusual maneuver.
At this time, although you are factually correct, I would suggest speculating on any cause is premature.
Can we just accept the fact there was a tragic event that took the lives of two Pilots and it shall be investigated and reported upon.
As accurate and relevant information is released....then folks can start the "Speculation Game" but at least it can be based upon something of substance.
There was a B206 that came apart inflight in st louis, missouri back in 2010. it was a result of low fuel, engine failure, and incorrect control inputs. this caused the helicopter to enter a low/ zero G descent, and Mast bumping/ tailboom contact. the aircraft came apart inflight, and was destroyed. no idea what happened here, but the circumstances seem to fit that same series of events... possible engine failure(for undetermined reason), collective reduced abruptly, and no aft cyclic. aircraft enters zero G dive, and cyclic movements then cause Mast Bumping/ Tailboom contact.
@ Bob
Check the name of this forum!
Pprune!!
If there's no discussion about the" how does it happened", those communities are boring.....
Read and learn from other postes! And you have the chance to fly more save than other do!
Check the name of this forum!
Pprune!!
If there's no discussion about the" how does it happened", those communities are boring.....
Read and learn from other postes! And you have the chance to fly more save than other do!
I was wondering how long this one would stay silent.....I saw the smoke from it when it happened on Tuesday. (Yes I am actually home for a week or two...).
Rumor and speculations:
Observation # 1.
Looking at the tail boom, it appears that the metal skin is bent outwards. Taken at face value, this "could" mean that the separation chain began by the TR drive shaft failing and tearing the skin from the inside, as opposed to being cut from the outside by the main rotor blade. Although the MR blade does show evidence of striking something.
Observation # 2.
It has been "suggested", (pure rumor at this point), that the main transmission gearbox is still attached to the aircraft. This was not the case in the low-G accidents I was associated with back in the 90's, thereby leaning more credibility to #1.
Rumor and speculations:
Observation # 1.
Looking at the tail boom, it appears that the metal skin is bent outwards. Taken at face value, this "could" mean that the separation chain began by the TR drive shaft failing and tearing the skin from the inside, as opposed to being cut from the outside by the main rotor blade. Although the MR blade does show evidence of striking something.
Observation # 2.
It has been "suggested", (pure rumor at this point), that the main transmission gearbox is still attached to the aircraft. This was not the case in the low-G accidents I was associated with back in the 90's, thereby leaning more credibility to #1.
Gordy - except the separation point is exactly where the MR blade would hit and the driveshaft has been chopped neatly at an angle as well.
Bob - not speculating as to why this sad accident happened just the cause of the TR boom lying away from the rest of the crash. The witness may well have seen the aircraft break up in mid-air - that's exactly what it would look like if the MR removed the tail section. As to why??? the crash investigators will figure that out. A pitch change horn failue could have the same result as low G, low Nr, mast bumping.
Bob - not speculating as to why this sad accident happened just the cause of the TR boom lying away from the rest of the crash. The witness may well have seen the aircraft break up in mid-air - that's exactly what it would look like if the MR removed the tail section. As to why??? the crash investigators will figure that out. A pitch change horn failue could have the same result as low G, low Nr, mast bumping.
I have to dis-agree. Look at the top of the tail boom---it appears the metal is bent out. I suspect had the blade have chopped of the boom then it would have entered at about a 45 degree angle.....and the top and left side would be bent in.
Compare to these pictures are from a tail boom that was cut off by a main blade---admittedly this is not an R-44 and this occurred during a flare gone bad--so not at altitude, (not me btw---but I did investigate it):
Compare to these pictures are from a tail boom that was cut off by a main blade---admittedly this is not an R-44 and this occurred during a flare gone bad--so not at altitude, (not me btw---but I did investigate it):
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I think you may be right Gordy. There are no signs of blade strikes on the fins and if it was mast bumping leading to the blade cutting the boom, I would expect to see some strikes on the fin.
Blakmax
Blakmax
Except that the blades can't reach the fin and if you bend down a blade to the tail boom, that point is exactly where it would hit.
A driveshaft failure could happen anywhere in the length theoretically but most probably at a joint/coupling.
The driveshaft has clearly been sliced rather than ripped and the left hand side of the boom is bent in slightly whilst the right is torn outwards.
I really can't think what else could cause that damage other than a MR blade strike.
The T&B calls up the thought of a maintenance error.
I hope the investigation team has better quality witnesses than this guy...
A driveshaft failure could happen anywhere in the length theoretically but most probably at a joint/coupling.
The driveshaft has clearly been sliced rather than ripped and the left hand side of the boom is bent in slightly whilst the right is torn outwards.
I really can't think what else could cause that damage other than a MR blade strike.
The T&B calls up the thought of a maintenance error.
I hope the investigation team has better quality witnesses than this guy...
"I hear this engine thrust really loud and then something exploded," Megerdichian said. "That piece of the rudder came out of the helicopter, flipped sideways and another explosion happened and shot the helicopter forward. Blades went flyin'. That's when I tried to run back because there was parts everywhere comin' down from the air, from the sky. I mean there was everything in the sky."
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Blade won't reach tail???
I have a number of pictures of blade strikes on an R44 fin following a probable blade failure, so clearly the blade actually can reach there. From memory there were at least four strikes on the fin and several on the boom, each progressing forward. I guess it depends on how rapidly the blade departs the plane of rotation. Gradual, fin strikes then boom contact. Rapid failure may miss the fin altogether.
I have a number of pictures of blade strikes on an R44 fin following a probable blade failure, so clearly the blade actually can reach there. From memory there were at least four strikes on the fin and several on the boom, each progressing forward. I guess it depends on how rapidly the blade departs the plane of rotation. Gradual, fin strikes then boom contact. Rapid failure may miss the fin altogether.
As crab@ said, the MRB will not reach the tail fin but will impact the tail boom at the point shown in the photo:
Gordy
I know have just got to the age of needing glasses but ! The left side does not have metal projecting outwards, the right and upper sides do
So it is not lost in translation across the pond does t and b mean track and balance ?
I know have just got to the age of needing glasses but ! The left side does not have metal projecting outwards, the right and upper sides do
So it is not lost in translation across the pond does t and b mean track and balance ?
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Tell me blakmax, in those photos of yours, have the tr blades also been struck by the mr blades? Because surely the mr blades would have to enter the tr disc to get to hit the fin. The tr blades in this incident appear to be unmanaged. How is that?
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In the case I have details on, I don't think the TR blades were recovered. They are certainly not attached to the boom. My point is that the blade actually can reach the fin, and therefore the absence of strikes (and together with your observation that the rotor blades are intact) it is unlikely that this failure was blade related unless it was an extremely rapid loss of the plane of rotation. Unlikely.
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Should have read further back! John E. In the case I was involved with the blade spar WAS still attached until it fractured roughly mid span after contacting the boom. There were at least three strikes on the fin and two along the boom. If a blade fails, then the remaining blade with all the lift will rise upwards causing a significant bending moment on the mast, pushing the mast backward thus reducing the distance between the blade tip and the fin. The pictures you offered are for a blade in normal flight.