FAA mandates replacement of R22 & R44 main rotorblades
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Not So Fast.....
Claudia, I beg to differ with you. I had an tail boom strike from the tail rotor on a AS-350D back in the very early '80s. The hole in the tail boom was almost large enough to stick my head in. This lead to an AD from Aerospatiale that lengthened the tail rotor gearbox output shaft. If I could figure out how to post a photo here, I would show you the photo.
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I have in my possession an email from Kurt Robinson warning me if I did not purchase a set of -2 main rotor blades before a particular date, Robinson was going to discontinue them and I would be forced to upgrade my Astro with hydraulics to use the newer stainless blades.
Soooo, I heeded his warning and paid close to US $45,000 for a new set of main rotor blades for my Astro that would not entail my having to add hydraulics.
Now, I am being told that my main rotor blades (which came with a 2200 hour or 12 calendar year limit) will have to be taken off in less than five years!
My real issue is the following:
Kurt Robinson HAD TO KNOW this AD was on the horizon, yet he didn't allow that tidbit to get in the way of him convincing me to buy a new set of aluminum blades that would shortly thereafter have their lifespan chopped in half.
After owning several Robinson helis over the last decade plus and being caught up in their multiple abject failures in main rotor blade manufacturing that has required me to replace perfectly good blades MORE THAN ONCE, this is my last go with Robinsons.
They simply cannot admit their engineering failure in being able to make a durable and dependable main rotor blade.
Robinson users can defend the company all they like, but what I've stated here is FACT.
Soooo, I heeded his warning and paid close to US $45,000 for a new set of main rotor blades for my Astro that would not entail my having to add hydraulics.
Now, I am being told that my main rotor blades (which came with a 2200 hour or 12 calendar year limit) will have to be taken off in less than five years!
My real issue is the following:
Kurt Robinson HAD TO KNOW this AD was on the horizon, yet he didn't allow that tidbit to get in the way of him convincing me to buy a new set of aluminum blades that would shortly thereafter have their lifespan chopped in half.
After owning several Robinson helis over the last decade plus and being caught up in their multiple abject failures in main rotor blade manufacturing that has required me to replace perfectly good blades MORE THAN ONCE, this is my last go with Robinsons.
They simply cannot admit their engineering failure in being able to make a durable and dependable main rotor blade.
Robinson users can defend the company all they like, but what I've stated here is FACT.
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After owning several Robinson helis over the last decade plus and being caught up in their multiple abject failures in main rotor blade manufacturing that has required me to replace perfectly good blades MORE THAN ONCE, this is my last go with Robinsons.
No intention of ever climbing into one, - and I've NEVER flown in a heli !
I'd be happy to jump into an Enstrom, Bell or Guimbal, though.
Something about reputation preceding?
aaaargh to be sure.......to be sure - 'Crapinson Flimsicopter' 
(such an appropriate name for such Crap)
If You value Your Life? then run-away, run-away from all Robinson made Crap
(such an appropriate name for such Crap)
If You value Your Life? then run-away, run-away from all Robinson made Crap
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Cockney Steve,
How many helicopters do you or have you owned? I assume the answer to be zero.
And if I understand you correctly, you have never flown in a heli, either?
Classic.
How many helicopters do you or have you owned? I assume the answer to be zero.
And if I understand you correctly, you have never flown in a heli, either?
Classic.
Last edited by 13snoopy; 30th Jan 2015 at 06:56.
Cockney Steve states himself that he's never been in a helicopter. Perhaps he should try it before holding such strong opinions?
For the record, I have flown an R44 into the arctic circle, across the Sahara (twice) and from London to Cape Town - as well as number of other locations far afield. It's a great machine.
I'm not debating the merits or otherwise of rotor blade replacement. Simply saying that it is an extremely capable aircraft (for it's size and price) - and very nearly everyone who knocks them has never actually flown one!
Give it a go, you might be pleasantly surprised.
Safe flights, Sam.
For the record, I have flown an R44 into the arctic circle, across the Sahara (twice) and from London to Cape Town - as well as number of other locations far afield. It's a great machine.
I'm not debating the merits or otherwise of rotor blade replacement. Simply saying that it is an extremely capable aircraft (for it's size and price) - and very nearly everyone who knocks them has never actually flown one!
Give it a go, you might be pleasantly surprised.
Safe flights, Sam.
Sam
Pretty crap though that the blades fall apart, with little or no warranty !!!
Seem to remember years ago that Robinson overpainted a load of subframes that had corroded and then refused warranty on them .
like most OEM's these days they try and palm us off with ****e product, charge a fortune for it and then make us feel we are doing them a favour by buying their machines
Pretty crap though that the blades fall apart, with little or no warranty !!!
Seem to remember years ago that Robinson overpainted a load of subframes that had corroded and then refused warranty on them .
like most OEM's these days they try and palm us off with ****e product, charge a fortune for it and then make us feel we are doing them a favour by buying their machines
As I said, I wasn't passing comment on the rotor blades (or indeed anything else about the 'value' of the helicopter).
I just get tired of people criticising something they've never tried!
Have a go in an R44, I guarantee you'll be impressed.
And no, I have no links to Robinson.
I just get tired of people criticising something they've never tried!
Have a go in an R44, I guarantee you'll be impressed.
And no, I have no links to Robinson.
500+ hours flying in Robinson products & not impressed, zero there still $hiitt. Hence the apt name; Crapinson Flimsicopter
Last edited by Vertical Freedom; 31st Jan 2015 at 03:01.
Hm, okay then.
I'm surprised. All the other (ex mil/police etc.) helicopter pilots I've actually talked to has stepped out of their first flight in an R44 with words to the effect: "hey, I'm impressed, I wasn't expecting it to be as good as that".
But not everyone, apparently.
I'm surprised. All the other (ex mil/police etc.) helicopter pilots I've actually talked to has stepped out of their first flight in an R44 with words to the effect: "hey, I'm impressed, I wasn't expecting it to be as good as that".
But not everyone, apparently.
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Well I have 3000 hrs in Robinsons and if not for the R22 would probably not have been able to afford to learn to fly and I am sure that goes for a lot of people . That said every time I get into a 22 after not having flown one for awhile I do have a slight panic that's something is broken until I remember that's how they are supposed to fly .
I do think the whole blade thing is a mess ! With cars you get a recall paid for by the manufacturer , Rolls Royce had to foot the bill with the a380 engines so why do Robinson and other helicopter owners have to foot the bill when sold something that doesn't work as advertised .
I don't think this situation will last that much longer there are new small machines on the horizon from a number of companies and Robinson will have to step up or take a big hit in sales
Cbs
I do think the whole blade thing is a mess ! With cars you get a recall paid for by the manufacturer , Rolls Royce had to foot the bill with the a380 engines so why do Robinson and other helicopter owners have to foot the bill when sold something that doesn't work as advertised .
I don't think this situation will last that much longer there are new small machines on the horizon from a number of companies and Robinson will have to step up or take a big hit in sales
Cbs
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For what it's worth, there is a Japanese company apparently considering an entry into the American light helicopter market with a helicopter that will rival the R44.
One of their markers called us for a lengthy Q&A and I found they asked some very intriguing questions.
One of their markers called us for a lengthy Q&A and I found they asked some very intriguing questions.
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Why my R44 is better than my MD500!
Well, no one ever said that pilots were not passionate people....
When I learned to fly helicopters, I learned in the Schweizer 300. After years of renting, my accountant told me I should buy a helicopter due to the amount of time I was spending flying them. I would "save" money....yea right...
After looking all over, I turned to the guy that taught me to fly helicopters for help. Having been a helicopter pilot for 40+ years and having flown nearly every Bell, MD and Eurocopter product available (including as a test pilot), he still recommended the R44 to me (and no, he was not trying to sell me one).
Because of the respect that I had for him and his flying abilities, I bought a brand new R44 Raven II (N4142G) without ever having flown one. He and I picked it up at the factory with four hours on the hobbs.
I would go on to put 1,300 hours on 42G including enough time and training to add an instrument and ATP Rotor ratings to my certificate. I flew 42G all over the place, day, night, mountains, desert, everything but IFR. Then I decided it was time to upgrade.
First I thought I was going to get an EC120. They looked cool. So I went up to Canada and went through the EC120 course taught by Canadian Helicopters (at the time). No where near the performance that I expected from a turbine and nothing like flying my Robbie. It was a total dog and would not come close to performing like the R44.
I did end up finding a turbine that I like and I purchased an MD500e. Yes, it performed better than my R44, flew faster, and would do maneuvers that would leave you in the morgue had you tried them in ANY two-bladed helicopter, not just the Robbie.
I loved the 500, sold 42G to a Chinese company and was never going to look back (or so I thought). I put almost 1,000 hours on my 500 before selling it and getting back into an R44.
After tracking all of the costs (purchase, insurance, all maintenance bills, fuel, oil, everything) I found that I was paying 4 1/2 times more per hour in the 500 than what my R44 cost me for nearly the same mission. After selling my R44, my total cost per hour over 1300 hours was $260.00 per hour. After selling my 500, I was at $1200 per hour.
Since I fly jets for a living and only fly helicopters as a hobby, the justification simply was not there for me. A very good friend of mine has an Enstrom 280FX...I thought I would look at one of those but the lack of capability over the R44 (speed, range, # of seats, and no available A/C that I could find) lead me right back to the R44.
So, from an owner/operator standpoint I can tell you that the R44 is a fantastic helicopter, easy to maintain, easy to fly, stable, and inexpensive to operate. Even if I had to replace my blades at the extra cost of $50K, it still would have been far less expensive to operate than my 500 for my mission.
I have a friend that bought a new AStar and it sat on the deck die to a bearing problem in the tail rotor system. He paid millions for that helicopter and could not fly it until they figured out how to fix the tail rotor problem....Not sure about any of you, but I would have been pissed had I just dropped millions on a new helicopter only to not be able to fly it.
My point being that Robinson is not the only helicopter that had ADs, and frankly the ADs on my 500 were FAR more expensive than my R44.
So from someone who has put several thousand hours in my own helicopters turbine and piston both, for my mission, the R44 wins hands down!
When I learned to fly helicopters, I learned in the Schweizer 300. After years of renting, my accountant told me I should buy a helicopter due to the amount of time I was spending flying them. I would "save" money....yea right...
After looking all over, I turned to the guy that taught me to fly helicopters for help. Having been a helicopter pilot for 40+ years and having flown nearly every Bell, MD and Eurocopter product available (including as a test pilot), he still recommended the R44 to me (and no, he was not trying to sell me one).
Because of the respect that I had for him and his flying abilities, I bought a brand new R44 Raven II (N4142G) without ever having flown one. He and I picked it up at the factory with four hours on the hobbs.
I would go on to put 1,300 hours on 42G including enough time and training to add an instrument and ATP Rotor ratings to my certificate. I flew 42G all over the place, day, night, mountains, desert, everything but IFR. Then I decided it was time to upgrade.
First I thought I was going to get an EC120. They looked cool. So I went up to Canada and went through the EC120 course taught by Canadian Helicopters (at the time). No where near the performance that I expected from a turbine and nothing like flying my Robbie. It was a total dog and would not come close to performing like the R44.
I did end up finding a turbine that I like and I purchased an MD500e. Yes, it performed better than my R44, flew faster, and would do maneuvers that would leave you in the morgue had you tried them in ANY two-bladed helicopter, not just the Robbie.
I loved the 500, sold 42G to a Chinese company and was never going to look back (or so I thought). I put almost 1,000 hours on my 500 before selling it and getting back into an R44.
After tracking all of the costs (purchase, insurance, all maintenance bills, fuel, oil, everything) I found that I was paying 4 1/2 times more per hour in the 500 than what my R44 cost me for nearly the same mission. After selling my R44, my total cost per hour over 1300 hours was $260.00 per hour. After selling my 500, I was at $1200 per hour.
Since I fly jets for a living and only fly helicopters as a hobby, the justification simply was not there for me. A very good friend of mine has an Enstrom 280FX...I thought I would look at one of those but the lack of capability over the R44 (speed, range, # of seats, and no available A/C that I could find) lead me right back to the R44.
So, from an owner/operator standpoint I can tell you that the R44 is a fantastic helicopter, easy to maintain, easy to fly, stable, and inexpensive to operate. Even if I had to replace my blades at the extra cost of $50K, it still would have been far less expensive to operate than my 500 for my mission.
I have a friend that bought a new AStar and it sat on the deck die to a bearing problem in the tail rotor system. He paid millions for that helicopter and could not fly it until they figured out how to fix the tail rotor problem....Not sure about any of you, but I would have been pissed had I just dropped millions on a new helicopter only to not be able to fly it.
My point being that Robinson is not the only helicopter that had ADs, and frankly the ADs on my 500 were FAR more expensive than my R44.
So from someone who has put several thousand hours in my own helicopters turbine and piston both, for my mission, the R44 wins hands down!
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If you fly large numbers of hours the R44 comes out looking pretty good, but I don't fly big numbers, I bought my heli used and the main rotor blade issue is gonna end up costing nearly as much as I paid for my helicopter originally.
To wit:
I paid for a new pair of main blades only because the set on my heli had "calendar" timed out. The blades I removed had hundreds of hours remaining and were in great condition.
Then I bought a new set that, less than three years later, have had their "calendar" time more than chopped in half.
So if I keep this R44, I will have to buy a THIRD set of main rotor blades that I don't need, when if things were as they should be, I would still be flying on the original blades that would still have many, many hours remaining until TBO.
The R44, for a pilot flying less than 100 hours a year, IS NOT the way to go.
To wit:
I paid for a new pair of main blades only because the set on my heli had "calendar" timed out. The blades I removed had hundreds of hours remaining and were in great condition.
Then I bought a new set that, less than three years later, have had their "calendar" time more than chopped in half.
So if I keep this R44, I will have to buy a THIRD set of main rotor blades that I don't need, when if things were as they should be, I would still be flying on the original blades that would still have many, many hours remaining until TBO.
The R44, for a pilot flying less than 100 hours a year, IS NOT the way to go.
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Sam Rutherford,
They asked many, many questions about cyclic and collective usage and whether I would like for the controls to be combined, ala an airplane yoke..
They also asked about complaints I have with helicopter maintenance issues as well as how much I'd spend to have a better experience with flying helicopters.
The interview lasted about an hour and was conducted from Japan to USA by telephone.
They asked many, many questions about cyclic and collective usage and whether I would like for the controls to be combined, ala an airplane yoke..
They also asked about complaints I have with helicopter maintenance issues as well as how much I'd spend to have a better experience with flying helicopters.
The interview lasted about an hour and was conducted from Japan to USA by telephone.
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13snoopy -
I agree with you - the blade debacle with Robbies is much like the bladder fuel tank issue (IMHO). I never planned on crashing my R44, why should I have to replace my fuel tanks..
My point was only that for my mission and of the two helicopters that I have owned personally, the R44 could not be beat without spending a LOT more money.
I agree with you - the blade debacle with Robbies is much like the bladder fuel tank issue (IMHO). I never planned on crashing my R44, why should I have to replace my fuel tanks..
My point was only that for my mission and of the two helicopters that I have owned personally, the R44 could not be beat without spending a LOT more money.