Robinson R22.....Fire-in-Flight check list
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Robinson R22.....Fire-in-Flight check list
In the POH, page 3-6, item number 2 in the emergency check list called "Fire in flight" for the R22 (and the R44), it states that you should turn off the "Master Battery Switch" (if times permits).
It doesn`t make any sense.
As long as the engine and the alternator is running you still have electrical power available.
However if the engine or the alternator quits you have no
- low RRPM warning light
- low RRPM warning horn
- radio
- transponder
- landing lights
- navigational aids
- possibility to restart the engine
Does anyone have any experience from a case like this?
It doesn`t make any sense.
As long as the engine and the alternator is running you still have electrical power available.
However if the engine or the alternator quits you have no
- low RRPM warning light
- low RRPM warning horn
- radio
- transponder
- landing lights
- navigational aids
- possibility to restart the engine
Does anyone have any experience from a case like this?
If you have an electrical fire in the panel what would you do ?????????? Think I would turn off bat master mind you then again I would let it burn seeing as I haven't sat in one for 25 years and dont intend to again
I took me awhile to figure what it is that you donīt make sense but now I understand. Itīs the part about turning off Master (if time permits) and by that loosing various warnings.
I would speculate that itīs the lawyers that added this one. If you **** up the landing and turn into a fireball there is a bit fewer hot wires that can ignite a spark with all the avgas leaking out.
They say master should be off, if itīs not then itīs not RHC fault it caught fire. Usually "Fire in flight" is mostly smoke or it will go out if the engine quits.
I would speculate that itīs the lawyers that added this one. If you **** up the landing and turn into a fireball there is a bit fewer hot wires that can ignite a spark with all the avgas leaking out.
They say master should be off, if itīs not then itīs not RHC fault it caught fire. Usually "Fire in flight" is mostly smoke or it will go out if the engine quits.
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And do not worry about not having electricity to restart the engine in-flight. At typical helicopter heights AGL you don't have the time, given the other more urgent things you have to deal with if the engine quits.
If the fire is coming from the battery charging circuit, and perhaps the bat is boiling, then turning the master off will remove the bat from the circuit.
Losing the governor is no problem to anybody trained properly.
Losing RRPM warning is no problem to anybody who has been trained properly and has developed an ear for the RPM.
Make your emergency radio call before turning things off
Leave Xpdr in emergency setting
Don't need nav equipment because you are landing RFN wherever that might happen to be.
Landing lights - won't need them, the glow from the fire, and the fact that you are 5h1tting blue lights should give plenty of illumination!
Losing the governor is no problem to anybody trained properly.
Losing RRPM warning is no problem to anybody who has been trained properly and has developed an ear for the RPM.
Make your emergency radio call before turning things off
Leave Xpdr in emergency setting
Don't need nav equipment because you are landing RFN wherever that might happen to be.
Landing lights - won't need them, the glow from the fire, and the fact that you are 5h1tting blue lights should give plenty of illumination!
Ascend Charlie 
LMFAO
LMFAO
A friend of mine survived the following incident.
Level flight in 1000ft ground with an A365.
sudden heavy black smoke in cabin
no way to breath and no chance to look forward.
He switched Batt power out, nothing happened..
Fast desent, by looking out of the sideward window
heavy impact with running landing into a flat field
everybody went out and had the best breath of fresh air in their life.
What happened?
The cable wich is connecting the batterie with the alternator, was not correctly connected and fall down from the batt during flight.
Batt stands on a kind of plastic blade. Now the cable is burning the platic blade with the full power of alternator.
by switching out both batt and gen. the heavy smoke will stopped
after a few second.
so 2 points:
by smoke in cabin you need no other electrical equipment, you have no time.... went down as fast as you can.
so best way is to switch of both gen and batt.
You have no chance/time to decide where the smoke comes from...
During night time ops in hight altidude you have a real problem, in this case my friend won`t be my friend any more...
Level flight in 1000ft ground with an A365.
sudden heavy black smoke in cabin
no way to breath and no chance to look forward.
He switched Batt power out, nothing happened..
Fast desent, by looking out of the sideward window
heavy impact with running landing into a flat field
everybody went out and had the best breath of fresh air in their life.
What happened?
The cable wich is connecting the batterie with the alternator, was not correctly connected and fall down from the batt during flight.
Batt stands on a kind of plastic blade. Now the cable is burning the platic blade with the full power of alternator.
by switching out both batt and gen. the heavy smoke will stopped
after a few second.
so 2 points:
by smoke in cabin you need no other electrical equipment, you have no time.... went down as fast as you can.
so best way is to switch of both gen and batt.
You have no chance/time to decide where the smoke comes from...
During night time ops in hight altidude you have a real problem, in this case my friend won`t be my friend any more...
Oh well, if we're telling salty old sea stories, there was I in the dip at 40ft on a dark and stormy night over the Bay of Biscay when the Sea King filled with a dark and stormy stink as the ni-cad decided to run away.
Then the RFA failed to respond to a pan call, then we turned everything off and didn't have a radio any more, then the other Sea King was blocking the deck, then we ran through ditching drill whilst trying to find a red flare for the gun, then we recovered and couldn't turn off the battery except by finding a set of bolt croppers to cut the battery cable.
Not all drills are covered in the checklist
Then the RFA failed to respond to a pan call, then we turned everything off and didn't have a radio any more, then the other Sea King was blocking the deck, then we ran through ditching drill whilst trying to find a red flare for the gun, then we recovered and couldn't turn off the battery except by finding a set of bolt croppers to cut the battery cable.
Not all drills are covered in the checklist
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As you say, not all drills can be covered in the checklist. In the R22, there are three possible scenarios:
1/ Big bang, engine destroys itself and smoke enters the cockpit via the central console. Enter auto and put off the battery (if time) when finished with radio and intercom. Purely to obviate sparks if you make a big Horlicks of the EOL and hit hard/roll over. Remember the tank and fuel lines are above the engine.
2/ Lots of oil smoke in the cockpit but engine still running. Low powered descent and powered landing asap. Colleague experienced this and said difficult to see and breathe in the cockpit. Battery and generator off rather irrelevant in this case.
3/ Cockpit electrical fire and huge volumes of choking poisonous smoke. Really nasty in the cockpit. Battery and generator OFF and land pronto. Unfortunately the person who experienced this said that the wire insulation continued to burn well after the electrical power was turned off.
Note: It seems that the airflow from the engine bay and any smoke there from flows forward and somehow enters the cockpit in the R22.
1/ Big bang, engine destroys itself and smoke enters the cockpit via the central console. Enter auto and put off the battery (if time) when finished with radio and intercom. Purely to obviate sparks if you make a big Horlicks of the EOL and hit hard/roll over. Remember the tank and fuel lines are above the engine.
2/ Lots of oil smoke in the cockpit but engine still running. Low powered descent and powered landing asap. Colleague experienced this and said difficult to see and breathe in the cockpit. Battery and generator off rather irrelevant in this case.
3/ Cockpit electrical fire and huge volumes of choking poisonous smoke. Really nasty in the cockpit. Battery and generator OFF and land pronto. Unfortunately the person who experienced this said that the wire insulation continued to burn well after the electrical power was turned off.
Note: It seems that the airflow from the engine bay and any smoke there from flows forward and somehow enters the cockpit in the R22.
Don't shoot me down In flames (pardon the pun)
It's a while since I flew an R22 but I see to remember part of the drill was
Turn off heater hence reducing air coming from engine bay.
R
It's a while since I flew an R22 but I see to remember part of the drill was
Turn off heater hence reducing air coming from engine bay.
R
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Fire in Flight (vs electrical fire in flight)
no smoking says:
and then sotiras says:
Yes, the alternator will continue to power the bus so as long as the engine is running everything will be powered normally. However as no smoking said, if you lose the engine or alternator, then you lose a lot.
Many years ago I did some testing to see whether the alternator would continue to produce enough electricity as the engine was failing to allow the low RPM warning horn to sound. Sadly, it did not. As the engine died I got a very brief sound from the warning system, however it didn't sound enough like the regular horn for you to necessarily know what it was.
Still, I would expect someone with a fire on board to be paying attention and would realize the engine had failed even without the warning systems...
As long as the engine and the alternator is running you still have electrical power available.
The fire in flight drill does not include switching the Alternator off, so with the alternator switch still made I presume that electrical power is still available. (I don't know how the alternator is driven)
Many years ago I did some testing to see whether the alternator would continue to produce enough electricity as the engine was failing to allow the low RPM warning horn to sound. Sadly, it did not. As the engine died I got a very brief sound from the warning system, however it didn't sound enough like the regular horn for you to necessarily know what it was.
Still, I would expect someone with a fire on board to be paying attention and would realize the engine had failed even without the warning systems...
