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Old 14th Mar 2014, 05:11   #41 (permalink)
 
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BBC News - Norfolk helicopter crash leaves four dead
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 06:53   #42 (permalink)
 
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Passenger now confirmed as Lord Ballyedmond.

After the 2004 crash of an A109 at Bournemouth in 2004, the CAA produced the following recommendations.

We still have too many Night VFR VIP helicopter accidents operating out of private sites at night????

Mathew Harding
Philip Carter
Lord Balleymond

Often single pilot, poor weather, too high a workload.

Not to mention Haughey Air's S76 accident in Ireland, which was different but shows how quickly things can go tragically wrong.


FOLLOW UP ACTION
The one Safety Recommendation, made by the AAIB following their investigation, is reproduced below, together with the CAA’s response.
Recommendation 2005-55

The Civil Aviation Authority should review the Rules of the Air and relevant regulations in their applicability to helicopters and should consider imposing minimum visibility requirements for day and night. These minima should afford an effective safety margin to prevent inadvertent flight in instrument meteorological condition or loss of adequate external visual references. The requirement for a clearly defined horizon, particularly over water or featureless terrain should also be considered.

CAA Response

The CAA accepts this Recommendation.
The CAA has prepared a draft Regulatory Impact Assessment and consultation commenced in February 2005, with a view to setting minimum visibility requirements for all flights conducted by visual reference, whether by day under Visual Flight Rules (VFR) or under the provisions for visual reference flight contained in the Instrument Flight Rules (IFR).
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 06:55   #43 (permalink)
 
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Norwich airport to the north started to fog out according to the tag at about that time. Indeed it had been dipping in for the last hour.
Thoughts with the families
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 07:29   #44 (permalink)

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Firstly, my sincere condolences to everyone directly affected. The aircraft was operated two crew, btw. I knew both and was talking to the pilots only a few days ago.

I must say that in the circumstances I think some comments made here are particularly insensitive and thoughtless.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 08:14   #45 (permalink)
 
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Special25;


Don't forget that the pilot in the Bournemouth crash was flying a night approach in poor weather to a well equipped airport and didn't have an IR.
Mathew Harding was a departure from an airfield at night/marginal conditions in an unstabilised 355 (no autopilot, floppy stick) And Phillip Carter departed from an airport to a very well equipped HLS and something went wrong, and we still await the outcome of Peter Barnes crash.


There is nothing intrinsically unsafe about operating to private sites at night, so long as they are well equipped (decent lighting etc), the pilots are familiar and you can safely make a visual approach/departure (weather etc). Skip one out of that list and it all becomes a rather different matter.


I'd have to check my log book for exact numbers, but this winter I've probably done it 20 times, and the final say is very much with the pilot, one shred of doubt and we're off to the nearest airport.


SND
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 08:55   #46 (permalink)
 
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Special 25

I fully endorse SND's post. It is important not to get carried away with sweeping generalised statements regarding night private ops. An awful lot goes on, perfectly safely and indeed it is imperative to the maximising of helicopter potential. Of course hazards are higher than daylight ops but then many forms of helicopter use have their win higher risk areas, be they North Sea, police and HEMS and these risks need to be managed and minimised. Clearly we need to wait for the accident report to see exactly why this crashed and what if any subsequent action is necessary.

Only one of your examples is relevant. As SND says, the Bournemouth 109 accident was into an airport with an ILS. The Harding accident had nothing to do with landing/taking off at night - it was a LOC in IMC in the cruise 20 miles or so from the departure point. The Carter accident probably was caused by losing visual reference on a foggy night approach.

And of course the Pete Barnes accident was daytime.

A very tragic accident though. My deepest sympathies to the families of those involved.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 09:02   #47 (permalink)
 
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At least there should be a full FDR/CVR to assist in the investigation.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 09:07   #48 (permalink)
 
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Very interesting reading indeed.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 09:26   #49 (permalink)
 
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Sad news. AW139 is a very capable aircraft even in the most adverse conditions when used to its full potential. The UK SAR crews have to routinely explore poor weather conditions with low level IMC ops day & night.
Senseless loss.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 09:42   #50 (permalink)
 
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Pittsextra,

Can you please stop trying to stir things? Four people have died. Have some respect.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 09:47   #51 (permalink)

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Dangers of these threads and personal information security.

Quote:
Sawman;
Especially when you look and find that she posted the first reference given on this thread to the aircraft being registered as "G-LBAL", which would make it seem that she is who she claimed to be. And she registered membership here quite some time back too, not today. Seems pretty obvious, even to a simpleton like me.
Before 'her' posts were made it was fairly easy to get some quite in depth information about this incident and those possibly involved based on this thread alone, let alone the updating media reports.

Posts on this thread
22:05 Augusta Westland
22:19 Norbrook 139
22:29 Based on the location and proximity of a private landing site, the identity of one male passenger is now being speculated
22:52 Haughy Air AW139 seems to be the way it's possibly heading
22:54 Haughy, Lord Ballyedmond, certainly owns Gillingham Hall
23:00 Sky reporting a Northern Ireland link
23:06 Lady Boss - Can some one please help me my husband was flying Norfolk to newly tonight?
23:32 Anyone know if XX was flying if it was indeed the Haughey 139?
23:59 Lady Boss - My husband flies G-LBAL any help please


'She' may well be genuine, however wouldn't it be better to call someone you know in the industry, or in the company, friends etc etc rather than post those sort of questions on here? As for 'her' reference to the registration number, surely something like "he flies for the company" would be more natural.

I would wonder how many press 'Aviation Experts' might have PPRuNe sleeper accounts?


By the way everyone, time to check your social media sites access settings.
It's amazing how open people seem to be! To check yours, get someone that shouldn't be able to see your social media info to have a look. They shouldn't be able to see anything, unless you want everyone to, or you are inadvertently in public mode
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 10:12   #52 (permalink)
 
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SS - perhaps the lady had other things on her mind at that moment. Personally, I find her posts absolutely understandable (having been in those circumstances) and I see nothing to 'complain' about.

My condolences to all affected.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 10:19   #53 (permalink)

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John R81;
Ok, you're more trusting than I am.
However, point taken
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 10:37   #54 (permalink)
 
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My condolences to everyone involved.

Seems to be confirmed as G-LBAL

13-Mar-14 G-LBAL AgustaWestland AW139 Beccles, UK (4F) | Helihub - the Helicopter Industry Data Source
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 11:04   #55 (permalink)

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Quote:
'She' may well be genuine, however wouldn't it be better to call someone you know in the industry, or in the company, friends etc etc rather than post those sort of questions on here? As for 'her' reference to the registration number, surely something like "he flies for the company" would be more natural.
I'm sure, thanks to your sage input, she will have learned her lesson.

If you understood how these private operators don't have the "ops" infrastucture that you have been, and are privileged to enjoy, you might understand that it is entirely plausible that the post was a genuine request. My wife would have been in a similar dilemma. Terribly worried but no-one available to ask at the time.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 11:13   #56 (permalink)
 
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In my simple opinion
In the dubt genuine or not just show respect considering true everithing.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 11:34   #58 (permalink)
 
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Special 25: GLBAL was often based at the airfield where I work until recently and I've never known it operate single pilot, even for VFR positioning flights.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 11:48   #59 (permalink)
 
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Pitts.....is that all you have to fret about?

If you have some concerns about posts being deleted....send a PM to Senior Pilot which would be far more an appropriate venue than a thread about a Crash that killed four people.

Or.....perhaps you might just take a hint when you see your posts disappearing.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 11:52   #60 (permalink)
 
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Pitts, It would appear to be censorship on behalf of a very wealthy,influential individual.If the post had been retrospective to the crash I could see why it might be considered worthy of this treatment.However it was a link to something several years ago which was nevertheless very relevant to the current situation.
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