Ornge helicopter crash
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As I said, I've been gone some years, so I'm looking forward to finding out if the situation is the same or has changed about the variable fits.
I agree about the increased risk of those fleets.
I agree about the increased risk of those fleets.
My thoughts and condolences to the community at ORNGE and the families and loved ones of those who perished on their way to make a difference to other lives and other families.
R.I.P.
R.I.P.
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Location: BC, Canada
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Here's a list of C-GIMY's equipment from an (undated) sales brochure:
International Aviation Marketing Ltd. : s76a sn 760055
(Duplicated here in case it goes offline):
Equipment List
IFR
Complete EMS Interior
One Sliding and One Hinged Door
Main Rotor Brake
Dual Controls
Heated Glass Windshield
Two (2) Controllable Search Lights
Engine Inlet Snow Protector
Emergency Floats
Bleed Air Cabin Heating System
Pulselight Recognition Lights
Tail Strobe Light
Avionics
Phase II DAFCS
Bendix/King KLN 900 GPS
Shadin F/ADC 200 Air Data Computer
Dual Astronautics RD650H ADI
King KDF 605 ADF
King DME KNR 630
King KRA 405 Rad Alt
Bendix RS 611 Color Weather Radar
Dual King KTA 905 Comms
Dual Sandel EHSI SN3380
Collins VHF-20 Comm
King KNR 630 Nav
MD 4300-412 Standby Altitude Indicator
Dual NAT N301A-519 Audio Panels
King KXP 755 Transponder
Penny & Giles Flight Recorder D51615-102
Pointer 4000 ELT
NAT VHF-FM Comm NTX138
NAT UHF-FM Comm NT450
3 x NAT AA95-705 ICS
Iridium Sat Phone/Flight Tracking S200-011
And a TSB photo of the accident site:
Aerial view of the Ornge helicopter accident site in Moosonee, Ontario | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Seems incredible an S76 can cut such a swath through the trees.
International Aviation Marketing Ltd. : s76a sn 760055
(Duplicated here in case it goes offline):
Equipment List
IFR
Complete EMS Interior
One Sliding and One Hinged Door
Main Rotor Brake
Dual Controls
Heated Glass Windshield
Two (2) Controllable Search Lights
Engine Inlet Snow Protector
Emergency Floats
Bleed Air Cabin Heating System
Pulselight Recognition Lights
Tail Strobe Light
Avionics
Phase II DAFCS
Bendix/King KLN 900 GPS
Shadin F/ADC 200 Air Data Computer
Dual Astronautics RD650H ADI
King KDF 605 ADF
King DME KNR 630
King KRA 405 Rad Alt
Bendix RS 611 Color Weather Radar
Dual King KTA 905 Comms
Dual Sandel EHSI SN3380
Collins VHF-20 Comm
King KNR 630 Nav
MD 4300-412 Standby Altitude Indicator
Dual NAT N301A-519 Audio Panels
King KXP 755 Transponder
Penny & Giles Flight Recorder D51615-102
Pointer 4000 ELT
NAT VHF-FM Comm NTX138
NAT UHF-FM Comm NT450
3 x NAT AA95-705 ICS
Iridium Sat Phone/Flight Tracking S200-011
And a TSB photo of the accident site:
Aerial view of the Ornge helicopter accident site in Moosonee, Ontario | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Seems incredible an S76 can cut such a swath through the trees.
Last edited by Senior Pilot; 2nd Jun 2013 at 22:06. Reason: Add image
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Night departures
Night departures with no ambient lighting in the vicinity, no visual cues, no horizon means you are relying on instrumentation and a procedure (power settings, attitude changes) from hover to initial forward acceleration then when a climb is established usually a slight change to pitch followed by close monitoring the instruments by both Pilots not distracted by anybody or anything until a positive rate of climb is established and airspeed is alive. Never easy and never assumed.
Below "min IMC" speed the $64 question is this.....if the aircraft is not certified for instrument flight below a certain speed (because its "behavioral aspects" are usually sloppy at slow speed), and the conditions as described above are applicable, where does that leave the Pilot flying?
This is not to assume anything regards this CFIT accident.
I just pose the question.
Thoughts are with the families and crews of this one.
Night departures without enhanced vision (read usually NVG's) leaves the crew without a key human sensor "enabled/active".....looking into the night. I humbly suggest NVG's would be a big advantage in these departures, as well in an emergency during flight en route.
Below "min IMC" speed the $64 question is this.....if the aircraft is not certified for instrument flight below a certain speed (because its "behavioral aspects" are usually sloppy at slow speed), and the conditions as described above are applicable, where does that leave the Pilot flying?
This is not to assume anything regards this CFIT accident.
I just pose the question.
Thoughts are with the families and crews of this one.
Night departures without enhanced vision (read usually NVG's) leaves the crew without a key human sensor "enabled/active".....looking into the night. I humbly suggest NVG's would be a big advantage in these departures, as well in an emergency during flight en route.
RIP
"Swath through the trees"
"Seems incredible an S76 can cut such a swath through the trees."
Just my opinion but I think that you will find that the "swath through the trees" is actually a bulldozer track cut to the actual impact site.
Just FYI about the airport Home
The Moosonee Airport is located 3 kilometres northwest of the Town of Moosonee and occupies a land area of approximately 212 hectares. The airport serves as a point of call for air carriers offering scheduled passenger service; and services both private and commercial helicopter and fixed-wing aircraft operators located on site.
This airport is owned and operated by The Corporation of the Town of Moosonee. The Airport Certificate is held on behalf of the town by the Airport Manager; and is maintained in the Airport Manager's office at Moosonee Airport.
Moosonee Airport is operational 24 hours per day, 7 days per week; and is capable of supporting both VFR and IFR operations. The critical aircraft for the primary runway is the HS748.
The manoeuvring area consists of two intersecting runways two taxiways, and a public apron. The primary runway (06-24) is 3999 feet long by 100 feet wide asphalt. The secondary runway (14-32) is 3500 feet (approximately half paved and half gravel) by 100 feet wide.
Moosonee Airport has operational staff on site 10 hours per day, Monday to Friday, excluding statutory holidays. Normal working hours are 7:00 am to 5:00 pm local time Monday to Friday.
NavCanada maintains a Flight Service Station (FSS) located at the Timmins Airport, operating 07:00 - 21:00 - 7 days per week. As part of the Letter of Agreement with NavCanada, FSS personnel refer requests for authorization to the Airport Manager or his designate if there is any requirement for special procedures or conditions on the airport. FSS authorities and/or procedures are also identified in the Emergency Response Plan.
Call-out procedures have been established for services outside of regular working hours. A call out list has been established and posted with the Flight Service Station. The maintenance person on duty has been delegated all necessary authorities to act on behalf of the Airport Manager in his/her absence.
Just my opinion but I think that you will find that the "swath through the trees" is actually a bulldozer track cut to the actual impact site.
Just FYI about the airport Home
The Moosonee Airport is located 3 kilometres northwest of the Town of Moosonee and occupies a land area of approximately 212 hectares. The airport serves as a point of call for air carriers offering scheduled passenger service; and services both private and commercial helicopter and fixed-wing aircraft operators located on site.
This airport is owned and operated by The Corporation of the Town of Moosonee. The Airport Certificate is held on behalf of the town by the Airport Manager; and is maintained in the Airport Manager's office at Moosonee Airport.
Moosonee Airport is operational 24 hours per day, 7 days per week; and is capable of supporting both VFR and IFR operations. The critical aircraft for the primary runway is the HS748.
The manoeuvring area consists of two intersecting runways two taxiways, and a public apron. The primary runway (06-24) is 3999 feet long by 100 feet wide asphalt. The secondary runway (14-32) is 3500 feet (approximately half paved and half gravel) by 100 feet wide.
Moosonee Airport has operational staff on site 10 hours per day, Monday to Friday, excluding statutory holidays. Normal working hours are 7:00 am to 5:00 pm local time Monday to Friday.
NavCanada maintains a Flight Service Station (FSS) located at the Timmins Airport, operating 07:00 - 21:00 - 7 days per week. As part of the Letter of Agreement with NavCanada, FSS personnel refer requests for authorization to the Airport Manager or his designate if there is any requirement for special procedures or conditions on the airport. FSS authorities and/or procedures are also identified in the Emergency Response Plan.
Call-out procedures have been established for services outside of regular working hours. A call out list has been established and posted with the Flight Service Station. The maintenance person on duty has been delegated all necessary authorities to act on behalf of the Airport Manager in his/her absence.
Last edited by albatross; 3rd Jun 2013 at 04:52.
TSB finished site exam
The swath of trees cleared is apparently from the S-76 (405 metres x 125 metres)
ORNGE helicopter crash: Transportation Safety Board finishes examining crash site | Toronto Star
MOOSONEE, ONT.—Transportation Safety Board of Canada investigators have finished examining the site of an ORNGE helicopter crash in Moosonee, Ont., that claimed the lives of all four crew members on board.
Investigators plan to take their notes, pictures and video back to labs in Ottawa and Toronto, where they will piece together exactly how and why an experienced crew crashed only 850 metres from where the chopper took off early Friday.
They’ve also recovered the helicopter’s cockpit voice recorder, a rectangular, orange box that starts recording audio as soon as power is turned on in a helicopter. It’s been sent to Ottawa for analysis.
“We’re fairly confident if there is a good recording, if it’s operating and functional, that we will be able to get something from it,” lead investigator Daryl Collins told the Star.
Investigators have pieced together what happened to the chopper that night. They say it took off from the runway, made a left-hand turn, went into some trees and started descending down to the ground fast.
The helicopter hit the ground in an area of dense, rough terrain close to the airport, creating a strip of destruction 405 metres wide by 125 metres long from where the plane first hit the ground to where most of the wreckage sits now. The site is littered with debris from trees the helicopter hit on its way down.
What isn’t clear is why the chopper crashed. Investigators are trying to figure out if there were mechanical problems with the helicopter, a 33-year-old Sikorsky S-76, or if human error is to blame, for example. According to a statement by ORNGE CEO and president Dr. Andrew McCallum, the weather that night “was adequate for the mission being flown” and the helicopter had been regularly inspected.
Another factor investigators are considering is the darkness the helicopter flew into when it took off from the airport.
Sky and ground may have blurred into a curtain of darkness, creating a “black hole” effect that could have caused disorientation.
Answers to these questions could take up to a year to find, Collins says.
In the meantime, a local company will start cleaning up the helicopter wreckage, preserving it all until the Transportation Safety Board investigation is finished.
The bodies of pilot Capt. Don Filliter, first officer Jacques Dupuy, and medics Chris Snowball and Dustin Dagenais have been removed from the scene and are being examined.
People in Moosonee, a small town of 3,500 on the James Bay coast, rely on air travel to get in and out of town. The community is only accessible from the south by plane and train.
ORNGE is also a key component of the town. People rely on the service not only to get to regional hospitals in the case of an emergency, but also as a major employer.
In a community where everyone knows everyone else by face, a tragedy like this hits hard. It’s the third devastation in the town in less than a year. The Moosonee Health Centre, the town’s clinic, was destroyed in a fire in December. And many residents had to evacuate their homes due to flooding this past spring.
On Saturday night, hundreds gathered for a candlelight vigil on the main street of Moosonee, where you can find the town’s only bank, grocery store, bar and restaurant.
Mourners used whatever they could find, from Styrofoam cups to tin plates, to build makeshift candle holders. They then walked along Moosonee’s wet, muddy and potholed roads, holding the candles in memory of the four men who died in the crash.
Residents have also been raising money to donate to the victims’ families.
“Usually the tragedy is on the outside of the [Emergency Medical Services] world and we are the ones there to help,” John McIntosh, director of James Bay Ambulance, said Saturday.
“This time, the tragedy is in the EMS world and it’s the community that’s helping us.”
Dagenais lived in the community full-time for five years, making his home across the river in Moose Factory.
His friends have set up a trust fund for his wife, Josée Cousineau, and their 10-month-old daughter, Névia.
ORNGE helicopter crash: Transportation Safety Board finishes examining crash site | Toronto Star
MOOSONEE, ONT.—Transportation Safety Board of Canada investigators have finished examining the site of an ORNGE helicopter crash in Moosonee, Ont., that claimed the lives of all four crew members on board.
Investigators plan to take their notes, pictures and video back to labs in Ottawa and Toronto, where they will piece together exactly how and why an experienced crew crashed only 850 metres from where the chopper took off early Friday.
They’ve also recovered the helicopter’s cockpit voice recorder, a rectangular, orange box that starts recording audio as soon as power is turned on in a helicopter. It’s been sent to Ottawa for analysis.
“We’re fairly confident if there is a good recording, if it’s operating and functional, that we will be able to get something from it,” lead investigator Daryl Collins told the Star.
Investigators have pieced together what happened to the chopper that night. They say it took off from the runway, made a left-hand turn, went into some trees and started descending down to the ground fast.
The helicopter hit the ground in an area of dense, rough terrain close to the airport, creating a strip of destruction 405 metres wide by 125 metres long from where the plane first hit the ground to where most of the wreckage sits now. The site is littered with debris from trees the helicopter hit on its way down.
What isn’t clear is why the chopper crashed. Investigators are trying to figure out if there were mechanical problems with the helicopter, a 33-year-old Sikorsky S-76, or if human error is to blame, for example. According to a statement by ORNGE CEO and president Dr. Andrew McCallum, the weather that night “was adequate for the mission being flown” and the helicopter had been regularly inspected.
Another factor investigators are considering is the darkness the helicopter flew into when it took off from the airport.
Sky and ground may have blurred into a curtain of darkness, creating a “black hole” effect that could have caused disorientation.
Answers to these questions could take up to a year to find, Collins says.
In the meantime, a local company will start cleaning up the helicopter wreckage, preserving it all until the Transportation Safety Board investigation is finished.
The bodies of pilot Capt. Don Filliter, first officer Jacques Dupuy, and medics Chris Snowball and Dustin Dagenais have been removed from the scene and are being examined.
People in Moosonee, a small town of 3,500 on the James Bay coast, rely on air travel to get in and out of town. The community is only accessible from the south by plane and train.
ORNGE is also a key component of the town. People rely on the service not only to get to regional hospitals in the case of an emergency, but also as a major employer.
In a community where everyone knows everyone else by face, a tragedy like this hits hard. It’s the third devastation in the town in less than a year. The Moosonee Health Centre, the town’s clinic, was destroyed in a fire in December. And many residents had to evacuate their homes due to flooding this past spring.
On Saturday night, hundreds gathered for a candlelight vigil on the main street of Moosonee, where you can find the town’s only bank, grocery store, bar and restaurant.
Mourners used whatever they could find, from Styrofoam cups to tin plates, to build makeshift candle holders. They then walked along Moosonee’s wet, muddy and potholed roads, holding the candles in memory of the four men who died in the crash.
Residents have also been raising money to donate to the victims’ families.
“Usually the tragedy is on the outside of the [Emergency Medical Services] world and we are the ones there to help,” John McIntosh, director of James Bay Ambulance, said Saturday.
“This time, the tragedy is in the EMS world and it’s the community that’s helping us.”
Dagenais lived in the community full-time for five years, making his home across the river in Moose Factory.
His friends have set up a trust fund for his wife, Josée Cousineau, and their 10-month-old daughter, Névia.
"The swath of trees cleared is apparently from the S-76 (405 metres x 125 metres)"
I find it a little mind boggling that an 10500 lbs helicopter could cause the damage shown in the photo.
I would understand a helicopter in a slow descent starting to contact/clip tree tops a considerable distance from the impact site but causing a swath like that shown-don't think so.
Also the reporter says the swath is 405 Meters wide and 125 long. A misprint I assume.
Anyhow it sure looks like a tractor trail to me and I have seen a lot of tractor trails. Notice all the debarked trees on the ground and trees pushed off to the left and right.
Of course I could be wrong - I often am.
I find it a little mind boggling that an 10500 lbs helicopter could cause the damage shown in the photo.
I would understand a helicopter in a slow descent starting to contact/clip tree tops a considerable distance from the impact site but causing a swath like that shown-don't think so.
Also the reporter says the swath is 405 Meters wide and 125 long. A misprint I assume.
Anyhow it sure looks like a tractor trail to me and I have seen a lot of tractor trails. Notice all the debarked trees on the ground and trees pushed off to the left and right.
Of course I could be wrong - I often am.
Last edited by albatross; 3rd Jun 2013 at 07:24.
Thread Starter
405m wide! and 125m long????
What kind of impact was that? Even if they inadvertendly mixed up width with longitude, an S76 could hardly cut a strip of 125m width. Perhaps they were confused with feet and meters? 405 ft long and 125ft wide, that would made sense for me and would still indicate a heavy impact!
skadi
What kind of impact was that? Even if they inadvertendly mixed up width with longitude, an S76 could hardly cut a strip of 125m width. Perhaps they were confused with feet and meters? 405 ft long and 125ft wide, that would made sense for me and would still indicate a heavy impact!
skadi
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Misprint? Perhaps 40.5m wide? I don't fly one but I think the main rotor blades are 44ft so that makes a disc of about 27m diameter? (a little more due to the head).
Thread Starter
Misprint? Perhaps 40.5m wide? I don't fly one but I think the main rotor blades are 44ft so that makes a disc of about 27m diameter? (a little more due to the head).
skadi
Last edited by skadi; 3rd Jun 2013 at 07:46.
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I'm pretty certain that's not a bulldozer track. That is standing water you see there and at this time of year that would be incredibly soft ground, a cat would leave huge ruts crawling in that stuff.
Disregarding the reported swath numbers (I doubt they are correct) I'm sure that one of you who have worked up there could tell us what the height of the trees are around the airport. I think it might be an illusion created by assuming the trees are larger than they actually are.
Regardless, condolences to all who are suffering from this loss........
Disregarding the reported swath numbers (I doubt they are correct) I'm sure that one of you who have worked up there could tell us what the height of the trees are around the airport. I think it might be an illusion created by assuming the trees are larger than they actually are.
Regardless, condolences to all who are suffering from this loss........
Last edited by Outwest; 3rd Jun 2013 at 10:05.
They’ve also recovered the helicopter’s cockpit voice recorder, a rectangular, orange box that starts recording audio as soon as power is turned on in a helicopter. It’s been sent to Ottawa for analysis.
Jim
PHI EMS lost an S-76A a few years ago.....in somewhat similar circumstances (reduced Vis....no Horzion at night).
http://flightsafety.org/hs/hs_mar-apr03.pdf
http://flightsafety.org/hs/hs_mar-apr03.pdf
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Obviously two very inexperienced guys up there. The Captain started in March 2013, the FO in August 2012. The FO's first IFR job and no comments on the Captains S76 or IFR experience, SOP's historically for this base, we put the new guys in the worst base with the hardest flying available and expect miracles.
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Chairmanoftheboard,
'OBVIOUSLY' you do not have the right facts. The Captain was a high time and highly experienced pilot with many years here in the north or as you put it 'worst base and hardest flying available' (I disagree with the statement as well)
Not only did he have alot of experience in the north, both day and night flying he has also been on the 76 and ambulance for years!!!!!!! He was far from a new guy.
'OBVIOUSLY' you do not have the right facts. The Captain was a high time and highly experienced pilot with many years here in the north or as you put it 'worst base and hardest flying available' (I disagree with the statement as well)
Not only did he have alot of experience in the north, both day and night flying he has also been on the 76 and ambulance for years!!!!!!! He was far from a new guy.
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"Seems incredible an S76 can cut such a swath through the trees."