Why Do You Fly From the Right Hand Seat?
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Left seat/ right seat?
Dear rotorheads,
please correct me if I am wrong,
(I fly fixed wings so I don't know too much about helicopters and I feel really stupid asking this),
I have seen that most of the time in a helicopter the PIC/CPT is flying the right seat, and if there is only one pilot in the helicopter, most of the time he/she sits at the right side.
Is there a (historical) explanation for this seating arrangement?
Because in fixed wings the PIC/CPT usually sits left and the SIC/FO sits right?
Why is it the other way around in a helicopter?
Or am I just having early symptoms of dementia?
BC
please correct me if I am wrong,
(I fly fixed wings so I don't know too much about helicopters and I feel really stupid asking this),
I have seen that most of the time in a helicopter the PIC/CPT is flying the right seat, and if there is only one pilot in the helicopter, most of the time he/she sits at the right side.
Is there a (historical) explanation for this seating arrangement?
Because in fixed wings the PIC/CPT usually sits left and the SIC/FO sits right?
Why is it the other way around in a helicopter?
Or am I just having early symptoms of dementia?
BC
Guest
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BC,
Very historical, going back to the Sikorsky R-4 during WW2. First two seat helicopter. It only had one collective (the thingy on the left of the seat that makes the world get smaller if you pull up on it) it was in the middle between the pilots.
Most of the new trainees flew from the right side as the old hands all took the left. In time there were more "right seat pilots" than lefties so things got standardized that way.
In fact in those days there were "right seat" pilots and "left seat" pilots. The difference was so great because to change ment completely changing your hand positions, not as easy to do in a helicopter as in an airplane. I've tried it in a Bell 206 flying in the left seat using my right hand for the collective left on the cyclic. Nearly crashed many times while trying to hover. No dought you can learn it but it really messes with your mind.
Also the practical reason is, in the right seat you have your left hand fee to tune radios, etc. (You can friction the collective and let it go) In a helicopter, other than one with SASS or AP, you cannot let go of the cyclic in your right hand. Helicopter wants to flop over and kill you if you do. In fact if you must let it go, fold a map etc you learn to hold the cyclic between your knees and rock your ass around in the seat to keep the dirty side down. Great way to scratch an itchy ass at the same time.
Gets interesting in alot of the small, Bell 47 Hughes 300 and 500, helicopters as the pilot is on the left side, to make more room for pax on the bench beside him, you are constantly changing hands in cruise to hold the cyclic with your left hand to use your right to tune radios, adjust the carb heat, or cabin heat. Takes a little time to get used to the change of hands. Also takes time to learn to get all the bits done before you are on final because there is in addition to the "landing decision" point a "no hands change now" decision point.
So if you want an adventure go take a helicopter lesson some time, its the greatest flying machine of all. You will say its "impossible to fly" when you start but in time you catch on. All the airplane pilots I've given joy rides to end up dropping out of the airplane game to master the slingerwinger full time.
I'm still mastering the beast after 14000 hours, thought I knew it all when I had 10000. I've had 4000 more to teach me I had more to learn.
Keep your turns up, lest the earth arise to smite you.
Very historical, going back to the Sikorsky R-4 during WW2. First two seat helicopter. It only had one collective (the thingy on the left of the seat that makes the world get smaller if you pull up on it) it was in the middle between the pilots.
Most of the new trainees flew from the right side as the old hands all took the left. In time there were more "right seat pilots" than lefties so things got standardized that way.
In fact in those days there were "right seat" pilots and "left seat" pilots. The difference was so great because to change ment completely changing your hand positions, not as easy to do in a helicopter as in an airplane. I've tried it in a Bell 206 flying in the left seat using my right hand for the collective left on the cyclic. Nearly crashed many times while trying to hover. No dought you can learn it but it really messes with your mind.
Also the practical reason is, in the right seat you have your left hand fee to tune radios, etc. (You can friction the collective and let it go) In a helicopter, other than one with SASS or AP, you cannot let go of the cyclic in your right hand. Helicopter wants to flop over and kill you if you do. In fact if you must let it go, fold a map etc you learn to hold the cyclic between your knees and rock your ass around in the seat to keep the dirty side down. Great way to scratch an itchy ass at the same time.
Gets interesting in alot of the small, Bell 47 Hughes 300 and 500, helicopters as the pilot is on the left side, to make more room for pax on the bench beside him, you are constantly changing hands in cruise to hold the cyclic with your left hand to use your right to tune radios, adjust the carb heat, or cabin heat. Takes a little time to get used to the change of hands. Also takes time to learn to get all the bits done before you are on final because there is in addition to the "landing decision" point a "no hands change now" decision point.
So if you want an adventure go take a helicopter lesson some time, its the greatest flying machine of all. You will say its "impossible to fly" when you start but in time you catch on. All the airplane pilots I've given joy rides to end up dropping out of the airplane game to master the slingerwinger full time.
I'm still mastering the beast after 14000 hours, thought I knew it all when I had 10000. I've had 4000 more to teach me I had more to learn.
Keep your turns up, lest the earth arise to smite you.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Magumba,
Thank you very much for your explanation.
About the helicopterlesson, you are right.
I went on a joyride a while ago with one of the pilots of a charter company in Northern NJ, and I immediately realised that flying helicopters might be more fun than flying a fixed wing. Ever since that flight, I have promised myself that as soon as I have payed of my studyloans, I will learn to fly a helicopter. You never know, I might make a careerchange in the future.
For now I'll keep buzzing around in a Fokker 50. Not too bad of a flyingmachine either.
Thanks again,
BC
Thank you very much for your explanation.
About the helicopterlesson, you are right.
I went on a joyride a while ago with one of the pilots of a charter company in Northern NJ, and I immediately realised that flying helicopters might be more fun than flying a fixed wing. Ever since that flight, I have promised myself that as soon as I have payed of my studyloans, I will learn to fly a helicopter. You never know, I might make a careerchange in the future.
For now I'll keep buzzing around in a Fokker 50. Not too bad of a flyingmachine either.
Thanks again,
BC
Guest
Posts: n/a
Breaking Clouds - there was a similar thread in Aircrew Notices (Misc) last month which throws up some more ideas on this subject for you. Try
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/For...ML/000120.html
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Mind The Gap
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/For...ML/000120.html
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Mind The Gap
The Original Whirly
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Why Do You Fly From the Right Hand Seat?
A fellow rotorhead asked me this on chat the other night. I couldn't remember, though I thought I'd read it somewhere. But I can't find the answer anywhere. Is it a weight and balance thing (when flying solo)? Or is it just convention? Is it the same in all helicopters?
Hope you don't mind me asking such a basic question but I'd really like to know.
Hope you don't mind me asking such a basic question but I'd really like to know.
PPRuNe Enigma
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Also 'cos of tail rotor coupling tends to hover left skid low so better to have solo pilot on right.
Got a feeling thought that some (Enstrom ?) do have solo pilot on the left.
[ 18 August 2001: Message edited by: Grainger ]
Got a feeling thought that some (Enstrom ?) do have solo pilot on the left.
[ 18 August 2001: Message edited by: Grainger ]
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You may want to read earlier thoughts on this
http://www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimat...&f=11&t=000163
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/For...ML/000120.html
http://www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimat...&f=11&t=000163
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/For...ML/000120.html
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Someone did sort of explain on the earlier threads.
It's a no-brainer.
You have to keep weight and BALANCE within the allowable range.
When single-pilot in a teeny chopper such as a Robbie (US counter-clockwise rotation) you are required to sit in on the right to stay in balance.
If the rotor goes the other way (clockwise, European) then you will probably have to sit on the left when alone in order to stay balanced.
D'oh.
It's a no-brainer.
You have to keep weight and BALANCE within the allowable range.
When single-pilot in a teeny chopper such as a Robbie (US counter-clockwise rotation) you are required to sit in on the right to stay in balance.
If the rotor goes the other way (clockwise, European) then you will probably have to sit on the left when alone in order to stay balanced.
D'oh.
Just Dropped In
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Hi Whirly
I always reckoned it was down to the collective myself, much easier when on your tod to muck about with the twiddly bits with your left hand while keeping right hand firmly on the cyclic.
'Most' helicopters hover left skid low BUT not the french ones! As such I'd poo poo that theory! (Incoming? <--- grabs hard hat & body armour!)
It also nice to be different from 'plank' pilots, who only truely love love rotary pilots when their plank has gone swimming!
The 'real' reason? Well if it ain't the collective I'm as keen to hear it as you Whirls!
Edited because I'm a plonker. Thanks for pointing that out by the way!!!
Edited again 'cos I'm still a plonker.
[ 19 August 2001: Message edited by: Roofus ]
[ 19 August 2001: Message edited by: Roofus ]
I always reckoned it was down to the collective myself, much easier when on your tod to muck about with the twiddly bits with your left hand while keeping right hand firmly on the cyclic.
'Most' helicopters hover left skid low BUT not the french ones! As such I'd poo poo that theory! (Incoming? <--- grabs hard hat & body armour!)
It also nice to be different from 'plank' pilots, who only truely love love rotary pilots when their plank has gone swimming!
The 'real' reason? Well if it ain't the collective I'm as keen to hear it as you Whirls!
Edited because I'm a plonker. Thanks for pointing that out by the way!!!
Edited again 'cos I'm still a plonker.
[ 19 August 2001: Message edited by: Roofus ]
[ 19 August 2001: Message edited by: Roofus ]
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ROOFUS
As an ATPL(H) holder with many types under your belt, why do you fly with your 'Right' hand on the 'Collective'???
Your Quote......
"I always reckoned it was down to the collective myself, much easier when on your tod to muck about with the twiddly bits while keeping right hand firmly on the collective."
Perhaps you were just tired from the strain of cack handed flying.
As an ATPL(H) holder with many types under your belt, why do you fly with your 'Right' hand on the 'Collective'???
Your Quote......
"I always reckoned it was down to the collective myself, much easier when on your tod to muck about with the twiddly bits while keeping right hand firmly on the collective."
Perhaps you were just tired from the strain of cack handed flying.
Iconoclast
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On the Bell 47 model the pilot sat on the right. On the 47-J series he sat in the middle. On the Sikorsky S-51 the pilot sat in the middle but on the S-55 and S-58 series the pilot sat on the right to allow him to monitor ingress and egress of the passengers and to maintain visual contact when using the hoist which was on the right side. To be different the S-51 mounted the hoist on the left side. I believe it was the same as the Bell models got bigger. Initially there was only one door and the hoist was on the right side.
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Apologies if the informnation is already out there on this one, but from my memory (distant) early helicopters had a single collective lever in the centre and two cyclics. The left seat pilot had to fly with his right hand on the collective and left hand on the cyclic. As most(?) pilots were/are predominantly right handed, it was easier and probably safer to have the captain/solo pilot in the right seat. Having flown fixed wing as well and got used to flying from the left seat with right hand on the throttles and left on the stick, I've always wondered whether it would be easy to fly this way round in the hover. Not tried it but I'm sure someneo out there has!
