UK NPAS discussion: thread Mk 2
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AoF
Looks like it's already been covered,
Looks like it's already been covered,
The current proposal is to top slice capital grant at a national level and redirect capital grant directly to NPAS to fund asset purchase and replacement.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
and while we're there how about Sid for the new Mayor of Birmingham ? 
Unfortunately Coco, my impementation of the Governments Big Society may be slightly different to the way they may like it !!!
The Governments viewpoint;
The aim is "to create a climate that empowers local people and communities, building a big society that will 'take power away from politicians and give it to people'.
This is how I see Big Society in action ;
"Throw your chips at me and we'll see what happens...."
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WF
Looks like we're getting some sensible thinking on these matters now that we have have directors appointed to finance, HR and operations.
Sid
Go for it, take it a step further and we can re-role all ex-service as unpaid taser carrying pcso types and get rid of the police altogether, certainly cut back on paperwork and cost....
Looks like we're getting some sensible thinking on these matters now that we have have directors appointed to finance, HR and operations.
Sid
Go for it, take it a step further and we can re-role all ex-service as unpaid taser carrying pcso types and get rid of the police altogether, certainly cut back on paperwork and cost....
Cleveland Police force authority chairman Stuart Drummond says setting up the National Police Air Support Service could save Cleveland Police £250,000 a year.
National Police Air Support Service could save Cleveland Police £250k - Local News - News - Gazette Live
National Police Air Support Service could save Cleveland Police £250k - Local News - News - Gazette Live
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
From the same link;
They also told Wiltshire they would save £1.335m p.a.
Downloads | Strategy Direction and Progress | October 2011 | 2011 | Archive | Public meetings
Funny how that when the West Mids finance people look at the figures, as previously linked, they only get a saving of £100,000 over a 3 year period! (assuming all the budget is spent)
As a result of the discussions we have had with the team developing the plans for the national service, we believe that the latest proposals would deliver savings in Cleveland of around £250,000 a year.
They also told Wiltshire they would save £1.335m p.a.
Downloads | Strategy Direction and Progress | October 2011 | 2011 | Archive | Public meetings
Funny how that when the West Mids finance people look at the figures, as previously linked, they only get a saving of £100,000 over a 3 year period! (assuming all the budget is spent)
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
By the way, has King Canute, sorted out the Colerne problem yet ?
First broadcast BBC Wiltshire, 6:30AM Thu, 26 Jan 2012
BBC iPlayer - Matthew Smith: New police helicopter service base in Wiltshire
WILTSHIRE POLICE AUTHORITY AGENDA ITEM NO: 8
Strategy, Direction & Progress
18th October 2011 Document6039_
First broadcast BBC Wiltshire, 6:30AM Thu, 26 Jan 2012
Colerne in north west Wiltshire has been chosen as one of the new bases for the National Police Air Service,
WILTSHIRE POLICE AUTHORITY AGENDA ITEM NO: 8
Strategy, Direction & Progress
4.4 Ensuring operational coverage both in terms of time and non-time critical incidents remains a concern with Colerne given its topographical and geographical location. NPAS commissioned a meteorological study approximately one year ago due to concerns about poor weather which may lead to an increased loss of service. The study has been completed using comparative data from RAF Lyneham and Bristol Airport and it is known that NPAS are in possession of that report but they keep delaying the publishing of that report.
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The difference between Colerne and Filton is not just any difference between the met at the two locations.
It is also a difference of the PAOM rules. Because Filton is so close to Bristol city and there is a carpet of ground lights all the way, then lower weather/vis limits can be used for night flying. Makes a big difference for jobs in the Bristol city area. Colerne is in a black hole on a hill.
Also the weather at Filton is VERY likely to be the same as the weather over Bristol city, so there is less uncertainty over go/no-go decisions.
Finally, the weather at Bristol Lulsgate airport has all sorts of reasons for being different from the weather in Bristol city area, despite being fairly close. There are major topographical features at Lulsgate tending to create poor vis, which do not apply in the same way at Filton or Bristol city.
Comparing the weather between Colerne/Lyneham and Lulsgate will tell you very little of interest: that could be the intention of course.
It is also a difference of the PAOM rules. Because Filton is so close to Bristol city and there is a carpet of ground lights all the way, then lower weather/vis limits can be used for night flying. Makes a big difference for jobs in the Bristol city area. Colerne is in a black hole on a hill.
Also the weather at Filton is VERY likely to be the same as the weather over Bristol city, so there is less uncertainty over go/no-go decisions.
Finally, the weather at Bristol Lulsgate airport has all sorts of reasons for being different from the weather in Bristol city area, despite being fairly close. There are major topographical features at Lulsgate tending to create poor vis, which do not apply in the same way at Filton or Bristol city.
Comparing the weather between Colerne/Lyneham and Lulsgate will tell you very little of interest: that could be the intention of course.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
NPAS commissioned a meteorological study approximately one year ago due to concerns about poor weather which may lead to an increased loss of service. The study has been completed using comparative data from RAF Lyneham and Bristol Airport
METAR Information for EGUO in Colerne, United Kingdom
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The Lyneham data is free, setting up equipment and collecting data reliably at Colerne would have taken some effort...and cost.
The Met office used to have a great little on-line sim that alowed the user to input any lat/long position in the UK and run a defined period (year/3 year etc) run of historical cloudbase and viz. The user just set the amsl line to get the percentage day/night out of limits data according to operating criteria. Might still be available?
Certainly showed that a choice of base some years ago in East Anglia would lose a predictable amount of night shifts, but other concerns won out in that choice
Guess what.............
The Met office used to have a great little on-line sim that alowed the user to input any lat/long position in the UK and run a defined period (year/3 year etc) run of historical cloudbase and viz. The user just set the amsl line to get the percentage day/night out of limits data according to operating criteria. Might still be available?
Certainly showed that a choice of base some years ago in East Anglia would lose a predictable amount of night shifts, but other concerns won out in that choice
Guess what.............
Filton Vs Colerne.
Local media carried a story about 2 weeks ago, to the effect that CC's of Avon & Somerset & Wiltshire had agreed with NPAS that Colerne was not suitable for all weather operations, and as a result it had been dismissed as an option
The two helicopters currently operating from Filton ( One Police and one Air Ambulance) would remain in situe for the forseeable future. Current activities for the Police, surround working closer with the co-located Charitable Trust "Great Western Air Ambulance" to make better use of facilities.
It was also confirmed that the local authority had indicated their "In principle" support towards any application designed to establish a permanent emergency services air base on the soon to be closed Filton airfield site.
A further chink of light?
tigerfish
The two helicopters currently operating from Filton ( One Police and one Air Ambulance) would remain in situe for the forseeable future. Current activities for the Police, surround working closer with the co-located Charitable Trust "Great Western Air Ambulance" to make better use of facilities.
It was also confirmed that the local authority had indicated their "In principle" support towards any application designed to establish a permanent emergency services air base on the soon to be closed Filton airfield site.
A further chink of light?
tigerfish
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Doesn't the saying go something like;
'Better to keep your mouth shut and let people think that you don't know what you are talking about, than to open it and prove it !'
Perhaps that's why there is an NPAS forum on a website available only to those with a .pnn account and only when it has been verified that a particular individual is in the pnn helicopter world are they allowed to see what is in it. All that's then needed is to to add small print saying anything discussed there is not to be mentioned in the outside world and we have a nice little conspiracy going on.
One question I'd like to see asked would be, 'of all the people working in the 'does it actually exist yet' NPAS, why is it only one post has ever been advertised?'
I guess that must be one busy informative forum. I've even heard it called a 'Doublethink tank'
Roflmao
'Better to keep your mouth shut and let people think that you don't know what you are talking about, than to open it and prove it !'
Perhaps that's why there is an NPAS forum on a website available only to those with a .pnn account and only when it has been verified that a particular individual is in the pnn helicopter world are they allowed to see what is in it. All that's then needed is to to add small print saying anything discussed there is not to be mentioned in the outside world and we have a nice little conspiracy going on.
One question I'd like to see asked would be, 'of all the people working in the 'does it actually exist yet' NPAS, why is it only one post has ever been advertised?'
I guess that must be one busy informative forum. I've even heard it called a 'Doublethink tank'
Roflmao
Anyone any ideas why the Met's three EC145s have had an ownership transfer
From - METROPOLITAN POLICE AUTHORITY
To - THE MAYOR'S OFFICE FOR POLICING AND CRIME
Check here for G-MPSA for confirmation
Is this the first stage of NPAS?
From - METROPOLITAN POLICE AUTHORITY
To - THE MAYOR'S OFFICE FOR POLICING AND CRIME
Check here for G-MPSA for confirmation
Is this the first stage of NPAS?
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Anyone any ideas why the Met's three EC145s have had an ownership transfer
From - METROPOLITAN POLICE AUTHORITY
To - THE MAYOR'S OFFICE FOR POLICING AND CRIME
From - METROPOLITAN POLICE AUTHORITY
To - THE MAYOR'S OFFICE FOR POLICING AND CRIME
Helihub,
A simple matter of the previous owner being disbanded.
London's mayor is now responsible for the Metropolitan Police's priorities and performance, as part of government plans for elected commissioners.
The Metropolitan Police Authority was disbanded at midnight and replaced by the Mayor's Office for Policing and Crime (MOPC).
The Metropolitan Police Authority was disbanded at midnight and replaced by the Mayor's Office for Policing and Crime (MOPC).
BBC News - London mayor gains powers over the Metropolitan Police
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
With the Oct '10 plan now being mandated, can we take it that the spectre of a central control room is back with us?
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From the good news about Colerne (if it proves true), it would appear you cannot be certain about much in what has been "planned".
Perhaps non-aviators have decided what they would like, but at some point there needs to be an aviation reality check. That's why you need a chief pilot or flight ops director or similar. The plans were provisional, in practice, pending the arrival of someone who knows what they were talking about.
Pretty obviously there will need to be an overall comms setup and a status board equivalent, to monitor aircraft safety and availability. Whether you need a CONTROL room, taking the initiative to make deployment decisions is quite another question.
Was there any info as to whether self-deployment will be allowed in what is planned? (Consider this a rhetorical question) Otherwise, you will get significant/substantial delays in time-critical tasking.
Perhaps non-aviators have decided what they would like, but at some point there needs to be an aviation reality check. That's why you need a chief pilot or flight ops director or similar. The plans were provisional, in practice, pending the arrival of someone who knows what they were talking about.
Pretty obviously there will need to be an overall comms setup and a status board equivalent, to monitor aircraft safety and availability. Whether you need a CONTROL room, taking the initiative to make deployment decisions is quite another question.
Was there any info as to whether self-deployment will be allowed in what is planned? (Consider this a rhetorical question) Otherwise, you will get significant/substantial delays in time-critical tasking.
Helinut, I agree with your "If correct " You will note it was a media quote and we all know how accurate they can be. However there is some local evidence to suggest that they might be correct this time.
You are also spot on re the Importance of self deployment in Police Air Ops.
Normally and quite correctly shunned in other areas of Police operations as being ill disciplined, and uncontrolled. Air support is different, and it is different for one very important reason Speed!
The whole secret of success in Police Air Operations is the ability to get overhead quickly, and before the culprit has left the scene. That ability is seriously challenged by any delay in getting airborne. If the crew have to wait until the control room wakes up and thinks "Helicopter" vital minutes may well have elapsed and the culprit escaped. That has been proved time & time again.
Keep Self Deployment, or lose the fight!
tigerfish
You are also spot on re the Importance of self deployment in Police Air Ops.
Normally and quite correctly shunned in other areas of Police operations as being ill disciplined, and uncontrolled. Air support is different, and it is different for one very important reason Speed!
The whole secret of success in Police Air Operations is the ability to get overhead quickly, and before the culprit has left the scene. That ability is seriously challenged by any delay in getting airborne. If the crew have to wait until the control room wakes up and thinks "Helicopter" vital minutes may well have elapsed and the culprit escaped. That has been proved time & time again.
Keep Self Deployment, or lose the fight!
tigerfish