Olympic restrictions 2012
DennisK
You're quite right, but does the CAA (Home office, whatever) believe that this measure going to stop them? If I was a terrorist, I could easily enter the London zone and be on the doorstep of the houses of parliament/Buckingham Palace, etc. in minutes. By the time the authorities even suspected something was going on, it'd be too late to do anything about it!
I think we should take it to Brussells - it's an infringement of our human rights!!
I doubt if the terrorists will be bothering to file flight plans or obligingly 'squawk' prior to getting airborne with a 500 pound GP bomb
I think we should take it to Brussells - it's an infringement of our human rights!!
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I am sure security will be very tight in the air and ground. I had to get a driving pass just to enter my neighbourhood by car and drive around town. And people not from the area where blocked from driving. And those of you who think a casual call for a flight plan a couple hours before a flight will work, I doubt it. Also any aircraft that does not have a flight plan i am sure will get intercepted well before it enters the restricted zone. Any Aircraft and passengers entering or leaving the zone will need to have been security screened the same as any major airport no mater where the flight originated. This is of course all speculation from the last winter games but I doubt things in the future summer games will be much different. The little guys should get together and be apart of the committee or figure some way to fight for some sort of compensation because you probably will be affected somehow.
Heres a little info on the airspace for the last games in Vancouver/Whistler landing fees where somewhere around $400-$600 at the tiny local Heliport. And i believe flight plan had to be approved 48 hours in advance determined by individual transponder codes for each flight. Whistler Heliport - 2010 Olympic Fees http://www.faa.gov/news/media/vancouvertfr.pdf
Heres a little info on the airspace for the last games in Vancouver/Whistler landing fees where somewhere around $400-$600 at the tiny local Heliport. And i believe flight plan had to be approved 48 hours in advance determined by individual transponder codes for each flight. Whistler Heliport - 2010 Olympic Fees http://www.faa.gov/news/media/vancouvertfr.pdf
any aircraft that does not have a flight plan i am sure will get intercepted well before it enters the restricted zone
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TTB
I looked into it a little and it is very interesting when comparing the airspace restrictions from the last winter games to the upcoming summer games. What you say makes perfect sense now. It will be interesting to see what the final out come will be. Primary airspace restrictions for south-east England
I looked into it a little and it is very interesting when comparing the airspace restrictions from the last winter games to the upcoming summer games. What you say makes perfect sense now. It will be interesting to see what the final out come will be. Primary airspace restrictions for south-east England
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I have been in touch with Peter Norton CE at BHA he is gathering feelings and info
the consolidated the response the better info@britishhelicopter association.org lets get this B******s stoped
the consolidated the response the better info@britishhelicopter association.org lets get this B******s stoped
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Terrorists
I love the idea that someone thinks I could be intercepted before entering the London CTZ. Fairoaks is already in it! Flight time to the 'games' site circa 6-8 minutes from lift-off. (HP less) And a Typhoon/Tornado has about as much chance of intercepting me in an MD500 at 75 feet over London as flying to the moon ... unless the pilot is cleared to take out a few hundred civilians as a side issue. Is there anyone in Government security who has the slightest idea of where the aviation risk could actually be coming from. DRK
Avoid imitations
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Anyone would think there was a volcanic eruption...
But seriously, hopefully this can be sorted or even more of us are going to be out of a job.
But seriously, hopefully this can be sorted or even more of us are going to be out of a job.
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Pass your message
Hopefully the message may be getting through.
The Airspace Restrictions Website is back up and the guidance / notes have been rewritten with a much more concilliatory tone. Still time to make ourselves heard, get involved in the planning process and even to volunteer to spresd the word when the restrictions are legislated at the end of 2011.
The Airspace Restrictions Website is back up and the guidance / notes have been rewritten with a much more concilliatory tone. Still time to make ourselves heard, get involved in the planning process and even to volunteer to spresd the word when the restrictions are legislated at the end of 2011.
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Perhaps when you pass your message on to the CAA you should thank them for publishing the handy terrorist guide that is G-INFO.
Nice information about where to go to find a private owner, kidnap his/her family and then more nice info to allow you to reprogram the machine's transponder so that it matches that of, say, an air ambulance.
Led by donkeys.
FB.
Nice information about where to go to find a private owner, kidnap his/her family and then more nice info to allow you to reprogram the machine's transponder so that it matches that of, say, an air ambulance.
Led by donkeys.
FB.
But seriously, hopefully this can be sorted or even more of us are going to be out of a job.
Good luck trying to change anything. Many here tried to no avail.
I have not yet had time yet to read fully all the information, but at first sight I am deeply disappointed that whilst the DfT and NATS appeared to understand the industry standpoint, the security aspects have (as was always inevitable) overridden what could have been achieved by a responsible on-shore helicopter industry: well practised at operating into or close to major sporting events.
Perhaps there is scope for damage-limitation.
On this occasion I don't think it's fair to blame the CAA, but the question must be asked of Government as to compensating operators who may be grounded by the restrictions.
Perhaps there is scope for damage-limitation.
On this occasion I don't think it's fair to blame the CAA, but the question must be asked of Government as to compensating operators who may be grounded by the restrictions.
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Sadly, I think it is a mindset thing on the part of the authorities.
The same mindset that thinks that placing restricted zones around prisons will prevent hijacked helicopters from being used for taking scrotes from exercise yards. It is doing something (restricting law-abiding helicopters), but it will never prevent the thing they don't want to happen.
The last thing they will worry about is a few small companies and pilots, even though what they propose will have no significant risk-reducing effect on the terror threat.
I agree with others that this is nothing to do with the CAA. The situation is being dealt with far above them in the hierarchy, by the anti-terror absolutist camp. If only it were that simple.
If many of us spent a few minutes thinking about how terrorists could evade this "plan" we would see a number of ways of an attack avoiding detection. Probably best not to talk about them in an open forum though.
The same mindset that thinks that placing restricted zones around prisons will prevent hijacked helicopters from being used for taking scrotes from exercise yards. It is doing something (restricting law-abiding helicopters), but it will never prevent the thing they don't want to happen.
The last thing they will worry about is a few small companies and pilots, even though what they propose will have no significant risk-reducing effect on the terror threat.
I agree with others that this is nothing to do with the CAA. The situation is being dealt with far above them in the hierarchy, by the anti-terror absolutist camp. If only it were that simple.
If many of us spent a few minutes thinking about how terrorists could evade this "plan" we would see a number of ways of an attack avoiding detection. Probably best not to talk about them in an open forum though.
Last edited by Helinut; 15th Mar 2011 at 20:32.
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I was filling in the gen dec for Cheltenham when it struck me when was the last time you carried someone that might fit the terrorist stereo type ?? all the people I saw going in and out of the races where wealthy corporate types that love horse racing and making money why on earth would any of them do anything to harm it ? and if you think of the kind of people you fly about on a regular basis they are pretty much the same type, why all the attention on the people who have the most to lose if there was a terrorist attack.
I don't think its racist to say the effort would be better spent on road blocks on the m1 outside of Luton
I don't think its racist to say the effort would be better spent on road blocks on the m1 outside of Luton
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The whole "terrorist" threat is nonsense. It's just scaremongering by the Government that wants to appear like it's doing something, and it also keeps the population fearful and easy to control.
Let's not forget you can drive an articulated lorry (full of anything you like) around Central London and up to the door of any major supermarket in the UK with virtually no checks/controls.
RAND report: Threat of homegrown jihadism heavily exaggerated, Zero U.S. civilians killed since 9/11 | loonwatch.com
Let's not forget you can drive an articulated lorry (full of anything you like) around Central London and up to the door of any major supermarket in the UK with virtually no checks/controls.
RAND report: Threat of homegrown jihadism heavily exaggerated, Zero U.S. civilians killed since 9/11 | loonwatch.com
If many of us spent a few minutes thinking about how terrorists could evade this "plan" we would see a number of ways of an attack avoiding detection. Probably best not to talk about them in an open forum though.
What's the process for objecting? Surely, there must be a better way of convincing the government that although security is of paramount importance, this approach is just plain STUPID
Funny old world. Sydney Olympics (pre WTC/9-11) was relatively easy to come to terms with.
Melbourne Commonwealth Games had a fairly large lock down, but wasn't overly inconvenient. A few hours of a large no fly zone during the opening, with Her Majesty doing the honours, but I don't know what checks were done on the four of us flying around at night over the MCG: no one asked me, I just got in and flew while the Mil Security helicopters had to hold 10nm away!!
The hallowed name of 'Security' overrides common sense and good planning these days, with no amount of money wasted on pet theories. I sympathise with all south England operators faced with this lot of rubbish
Melbourne Commonwealth Games had a fairly large lock down, but wasn't overly inconvenient. A few hours of a large no fly zone during the opening, with Her Majesty doing the honours, but I don't know what checks were done on the four of us flying around at night over the MCG: no one asked me, I just got in and flew while the Mil Security helicopters had to hold 10nm away!!
The hallowed name of 'Security' overrides common sense and good planning these days, with no amount of money wasted on pet theories. I sympathise with all south England operators faced with this lot of rubbish
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I understand that for the 2004 Olympics in Athens, the whole of the VFR route structure for the Athens TMA was closed with the exception of one route allowing arrival and departure from the east, which was about 45 miles from the city. All VFR traffic was banned with the exception of those helicopters engaged in broadcasting or relaying for specific events and they had to carry a member of the security services as chaperone.
The Greeks deployed batteries of Patriot missiles at strategic locations to cater for the determined rogue aircraft.
I bumped into the crew of one S76 operating in and around Athens at the time and they were only able to achieve their tasking by operating full IFR, STARS and SIDs et al.
Looks like the beaches will be crowded with helicoppter pilots during the Olympics.
The Greeks deployed batteries of Patriot missiles at strategic locations to cater for the determined rogue aircraft.
I bumped into the crew of one S76 operating in and around Athens at the time and they were only able to achieve their tasking by operating full IFR, STARS and SIDs et al.
Looks like the beaches will be crowded with helicoppter pilots during the Olympics.
This thread has so far been about terrorists. I would hope the very expensive spooks and the masses of intrusive data gathering / CCTVs that invade our lives will pick these guys up well before they get in a helicopter. Hopefully every MI5 agent has the intelligence to realise if a suspect is taking helicopter lessons there may be a risk.
Surely the much greater risk is a rated pilot who develops mental illness, or a grudge, or simply gets depression and decides to go out with a bang. And I just cant see what is to stop that person filing his flightplan in advance, even assuming he wanted to commit his atrocity without breaching these regulations.
Or indeed what is to stop the terrorist or pilot with bipolar disease doing his dastardly deed the day before the regulations come into force. So why do we have this shut down, which is unjustified and lacking any benefit at any time, for so long?
Surely the much greater risk is a rated pilot who develops mental illness, or a grudge, or simply gets depression and decides to go out with a bang. And I just cant see what is to stop that person filing his flightplan in advance, even assuming he wanted to commit his atrocity without breaching these regulations.
Or indeed what is to stop the terrorist or pilot with bipolar disease doing his dastardly deed the day before the regulations come into force. So why do we have this shut down, which is unjustified and lacking any benefit at any time, for so long?