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Slow death of airmanship.

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Slow death of airmanship.

Old 7th Jan 2011, 00:21
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My you are a sensitive soul Shyte.

Unlikevice could have questioned the slow death many aspects of society - good manners, chivalry, good TV, tolerance, national identity, the media, self-responsibility - the list is endless - sadly.

Or perhaps my two score years and ten is simply turning me into a 'grumpy old man'?
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Old 7th Jan 2011, 00:49
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You can write what you like in the company operations manual. The only thing that is good for is hanging someone out to dry when required.
It is the Company culture that mainly determines the action and behaviour and attitudes of the staff.
If it becomes normal for the pilot to delegate certain tasks that the pilot is clearly expected to personally carry out as directed by the operations manual, then that is what will and does happen.
If it becomes normal for pilots to skip certain tasks, then that is what will happen.
SASless is onto it. Good leadership is the answer. We are missing that. The senior pilot is a baby that thinks he knows, makes all the right noises, but is still just a pup. He has huge potential but I don’t know how he is going to reach his personal best without a good mentor. Our company does not seem to have such a mentor. We seem to have chosen staff that will fit in, rather than bring experience and standards of airmanship. We even psychologically test prospective employees to make sure they are ready to follow rather than lead.
One of the more insightful posts that will be found here in Pprune land.

What you refer to unlikevice is/was to be found in some very large organisations, and I've worked under those very conditions.

I don't believe any of those failings you list fall under the banner of 'airmanship,' more like low calibre pilots with poor personal standards!
While I fully understand where you are coming from 212man when you lack the all important leadership who have the willingness to loosen the purse strings and spend cash on training and the provision of the necessary to do your job effectively (and legally I might add) then the lowly pilot is up against it. Particularly when they have a yearly assessment process to keep you in your place.
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Old 7th Jan 2011, 10:18
  #23 (permalink)  

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My you are a sensitive soul Shyte.

Unlikevice could have questioned the slow death many aspects of society - good manners, chivalry, good TV, tolerance, national identity, the media, self-responsibility - the list is endless - sadly.

Or perhaps my two score years and ten is simply turning me into a 'grumpy old man'?
You called professional pilots "apologists" for challenging the OP's personal observation on a basic lack of airmanship. I regarded that post as inflammatory. No-one here apologised for the actions of other pilots, but three of us (four if you count SAS who I believe is now enjoying his retirement) merely disagreed with the observation, as far as we were concerned. In my case, I explained why.

What else the OP could have written is immaterial.

Maybe it is - perhaps you'll become even more grumpy when you get to my age.

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Old 7th Jan 2011, 11:28
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This has got to be a wind-up
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Old 7th Jan 2011, 11:37
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Sometimes the whole website is total wind-up.
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Old 7th Jan 2011, 12:06
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Talking

fogs got thicker and snow deeper. might go flying!
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Old 7th Jan 2011, 17:45
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Shy boy, what are you suggesting?
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Old 7th Jan 2011, 18:06
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I only bite so deep.
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Old 9th Jan 2011, 01:12
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I know of a company where the pilots don’t do pre flight inspections. The Pilots are happy to sign the aircraft acceptance sight unseen. Someone else does a daily inspection and this is accepted by all as equivalent.
I know of another organization where the crewman does the preflight inspection every other day. If the Pilot was to then go and have another look before takeoff the crew would be very offended.
Equivalent safety maybe?? But from my point of view it shows a broad reduction in the standard of airmanship as unlikevice suggests.
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Old 9th Jan 2011, 01:26
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We have a pilot that maintains it is his prerogative to do as much or as little of the preflight inspection as he sees fit on the day. The flight manual preflight check is a guide only.
If an individuals standards have never been high, I doubt they would know when their personal standards of airmanship have reached an all time low!!
Training, Training, Training. But where to find a trainer?
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Old 9th Jan 2011, 02:28
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Having obtained the desired end result....retired and enjoying life after almost four decades flying helicopters accident/incident free.....I like to think I tripped upon the right combination of judgement, skill, training, mentoring, practice, professionalism, effort, and LUCK! Despite thinking myself a decent airman....I will freely admit LUCK trumps all the rest.

Perhaps one can fabricate a large portion of your LUCK....but that bit left out is the ultimate key ingredient to a successful career flying helicopters.
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Old 9th Jan 2011, 06:11
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Perhaps one can fabricate a large portion of your LUCK....
Well said. If you regularly put yourself in bad situations, then bad outcomes should not be called "bad luck". I've seen many such people in my life, complaining about their bad luck, when it should be expected, since they act the idiot part so well.

Conversely, if you preflight the aircraft, fly conservatively, mind the Ts and Ps, noises, and vibrations, it's not good luck when you catch a problem before it turns catastrophic. It's a result of doing your job properly.

I attend many pilot safety seminars in my area. I've come to recognize many of the same people over and over, and they seem to have pretty good "luck". On the other hand, there are many pilots that I never see at such a meeting, and they are the one who could use the most help. I think for the most part, we make our own "luck".
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Old 9th Jan 2011, 19:54
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Sasless, how many times in your career did you find something amiss on your pre-flight??
I don’t mean” Maybe a bit more oil would be nice” I mean an engineering error, a crack or some overnight damage that was a complete mistery?
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Old 10th Jan 2011, 00:54
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More than a few....some could have been killers!

On an ERA 212 in Alaska.....tail rotor p/c link dangling loose at one end after the tail rotor had been replaced, tracked, balanced, inspected and signed off, preflighted and flown by the Lead Pilot. (as duly noted in the logbook mind you!)

Bristow 212....a full complete bed sheet in the forward end of the tail rotor drive shaft.

Bristow S-58T.....Engineer's rubber torch found lying on the main drive shaft resulting in the drive shaft being scored almost in two. Later on found a very nice Torque Wrench which was duly donated to Mssr Davey Jones.

Chinook....US Army....control linkage missing a nutter and cotter pin.
Chinook....US Army....complete number two engine gone from the aircraft
Chinook....US Army....a full roll of locking wire, wire twisting pliers, various rags, and a can of lubriplate.

Those wee things still stand out in my mind.
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Old 23rd Jul 2014, 20:31
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Before-landing-check-list. I can see how my post may have seemed suspicious. But sorry no, nothing as interesting as a reporter on the prowl. Just a jaded old man disappointed by the observed changers to my beloved industry.

It’s all about training. Pilots need to have enough confidence in there own knowledge to be able to carry out certain tasks fully. It is complete lunacy for a Pilot to trust his preflight inspection to an Engineer, which he may not have even met. When asked, the Pilot replied, “well you know what you are looking at better than me”.

Is the Pilot being a nice guy by trusting the Engineer?
Is the Pilot lazy?
Is the Pilot loaded up with so much other procedural and reporting rubbish that some thing has to give somewhere?

There are no brownie points for doing a preflight inspection, it is a base requirement. There is no excuse. It is expected. It is standard good airmanship. It cannot be delegated!

Pilots in the company I work for routinely certify for inspections they either have not carried out at all or have carried out in some amended fashion that has become culturally normal. They don’t refer to technical documentation; they will ask another Pilot what he does.

Our pilots do some of the most sophisticated full motion flight simulator training at great expense but avoid doing a preflight inspection of their aircraft at every opportunity. Are we serious about safety? Or are we more interested in superficial progression and qualifications.

To do a job safely you must be able to do that job easily. In order to be able to complicated tasks easily you need your ducks in a row.
- Good training
- Required equipment.
- Continual practice at task.
- Be physically fit for task (Rested and well).
- The company culture must be supportive of the task being done well. It cannot be considered beneath an IFR Captains standing to spend the time to do a preflight inspection to the depth required by the flight manual.
- The Pilot must want it.
The Pilots I work with are all good men. The company culture is shot.
From my point of view my observations are clear. What is not clear to me is how to fix it!
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Old 24th Jul 2014, 09:12
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You can't learn airmanship out of a book. When I grew up in the military, There was a basic framework of rules, big ones, which were good guidance and non negotiable and were there to hopefully stop you killing yourself. You then flew with an experienced commander or were well mentored by senior squadron members, who provided guidance and you learnt to make decisions when operating your aircraft, within that rule framework. This allowed you to use initiative, gain confidence in yourself, accept reponsibility for your actions and learn sound airmanship.

A few years ago I flew for an organisation where control was severe, so much so that I wouldn't have been surprised if an instruction came out telling you how to breathe in the cockpit. This was sadly driven by the litigeous world we live in, it was so Senior Officer Top Rung could claim no responsibility, it was Junior Officer Tooslow, who broke rule 4b,sub para 3d, footnote 1b, so it's all his fault. As such in a system like this you don't think, you have to follow the the million rules rule book to the letter. No wonder airmanship is gasping for air.

Last edited by PerAsperaAdAstra; 24th Jul 2014 at 09:26.
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Old 24th Jul 2014, 14:33
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Hmmmm: Unlikevice - you waited 3 years before responding to a previous poster.....without blinking....or did you not notice?
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Old 25th Jul 2014, 07:39
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Your patients develops as you age!
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Old 25th Jul 2014, 08:08
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Ah! a Doctor.
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Old 25th Jul 2014, 10:16
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Who cares what the OPS manual or company culture dictates, or what the last pilot did or didn't do.

Its an aircraft, you are about to get into it and send it skywards, preflight the bloody thing.

Last edited by tony 1969; 25th Jul 2014 at 10:18. Reason: ny bad speellling
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