New US Presidential Helicopter requirement
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New US Presidential Helicopter requirement
From Aviation International News today
Navy Requests Info for Next Presidential Helicopter
The U.S. Navy on Tuesday issued a request for information (RFI) for the helicopter that will possibly begin to replace the current fleet of “Marine One” Sikorsky VH-3Ds and VH-60Ns between 2017 and 2023. The RFI follows the termination of the VH-71 presidential helicopter program by the Pentagon last year and the subsequent approval of limited funds for “technology capture” of some of the $3.3 billion spent on that program by contractors Lockheed Martin, AgustaWestland and others. A Navy spokesperson told AIN, “The Navy is still assessing the best way to capture technology obtained from the [VH-71] presidential helicopters development programs as provided for by the FY2010 Defense Authorization and Appropriations Acts.” Meanwhile, the Navy, the White House Military Office and the Office of the Secretary of Defense are working to develop options for a revised replacement helicopter program. According to a spokesman for AgustaWestland, “We are looking at the RFI and are confident that the AW101 is the right helicopter for the mission.” Sikorsky and Lockheed Martin did not immediately provide comment to AIN. Responding parties have until March 3 to submit a letter of interest and April 19 to submit their final responses to the Naval Air Systems Command.
The U.S. Navy on Tuesday issued a request for information (RFI) for the helicopter that will possibly begin to replace the current fleet of “Marine One” Sikorsky VH-3Ds and VH-60Ns between 2017 and 2023. The RFI follows the termination of the VH-71 presidential helicopter program by the Pentagon last year and the subsequent approval of limited funds for “technology capture” of some of the $3.3 billion spent on that program by contractors Lockheed Martin, AgustaWestland and others. A Navy spokesperson told AIN, “The Navy is still assessing the best way to capture technology obtained from the [VH-71] presidential helicopters development programs as provided for by the FY2010 Defense Authorization and Appropriations Acts.” Meanwhile, the Navy, the White House Military Office and the Office of the Secretary of Defense are working to develop options for a revised replacement helicopter program. According to a spokesman for AgustaWestland, “We are looking at the RFI and are confident that the AW101 is the right helicopter for the mission.” Sikorsky and Lockheed Martin did not immediately provide comment to AIN. Responding parties have until March 3 to submit a letter of interest and April 19 to submit their final responses to the Naval Air Systems Command.
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mixed fleet??!!
from Flight International
New VXX competition reveals changes for US presidential helicopter
By Stephen Trimble
The US Navy has launched the process to buy a new presidential helicopter, nine months after deciding to cancel the Lockheed Martin/AgustaWestland VH-71 despite spending $3.2 billion.
A request for information issued on 16 February asks industry to submit data about potential helicopter platforms that could fulfil the VXX mission. The results will feed an analysis of alternatives that is required before launching a competition or awarding a sole-source contract.
Such reviews generally require 12-18 months to complete at a minimum, although it is possible the USN could shorten the timeframe based on the knowledge acquired during the previous VXX programme.
The 27-page RFI document suggests the navy is considering making a major change to its acquisition strategy compared with the VH-71 process.
Rather than buy a common aircraft to replace 11 Sikorsky VH-3Ds and eight Sikorsky VH-60s, the service would consider splitting the contract with a mixed fleet, the RFI says. Options under review include buying a common aircraft with two variants, or simply purchasing two different aircraft types.
The RFI discusses buying one aircraft with a fully appointed executive suite, including galley and lavatory, and a different aircraft with a full load of command, control and communications equipment.
Its proposed change appears aimed at addressing a key reason for the cost overruns and schedule delays that plagued the terminated contract for the VH-71. The navy required Lockheed to substantially redesign the VH-71 after contract award because the aircraft was not large or powerful enough to carry everything the presidential mission needed.
The original competition for the VXX contract became a heated race between Sikorsky's "All-American" VH-92 and the Lockheed team's VH-71, which is based on the AgustaWestland AW101.
The second round of bids is expected to include a challenge from Boeing, which has discussed offering a variant of its CH-47 Chinook or the Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey tiltrotor. However, the RFI suggests that the latter type could be disadvantaged in the new competition, as the navy requires a speed of 140kt (260km/h), or roughly half of the V-22's capability.
Meanwhile, the USN has revealed plans to invest $500 million to keep the current presidential helicopter fleet serviceable until the long-awaited replacement arrives. The VH-3Ds have been in service for nearly 40 years, while the VH-60s became operational in the late 1980s.
By Stephen Trimble
The US Navy has launched the process to buy a new presidential helicopter, nine months after deciding to cancel the Lockheed Martin/AgustaWestland VH-71 despite spending $3.2 billion.
A request for information issued on 16 February asks industry to submit data about potential helicopter platforms that could fulfil the VXX mission. The results will feed an analysis of alternatives that is required before launching a competition or awarding a sole-source contract.
Such reviews generally require 12-18 months to complete at a minimum, although it is possible the USN could shorten the timeframe based on the knowledge acquired during the previous VXX programme.
The 27-page RFI document suggests the navy is considering making a major change to its acquisition strategy compared with the VH-71 process.
Rather than buy a common aircraft to replace 11 Sikorsky VH-3Ds and eight Sikorsky VH-60s, the service would consider splitting the contract with a mixed fleet, the RFI says. Options under review include buying a common aircraft with two variants, or simply purchasing two different aircraft types.
The RFI discusses buying one aircraft with a fully appointed executive suite, including galley and lavatory, and a different aircraft with a full load of command, control and communications equipment.
Its proposed change appears aimed at addressing a key reason for the cost overruns and schedule delays that plagued the terminated contract for the VH-71. The navy required Lockheed to substantially redesign the VH-71 after contract award because the aircraft was not large or powerful enough to carry everything the presidential mission needed.
The original competition for the VXX contract became a heated race between Sikorsky's "All-American" VH-92 and the Lockheed team's VH-71, which is based on the AgustaWestland AW101.
The second round of bids is expected to include a challenge from Boeing, which has discussed offering a variant of its CH-47 Chinook or the Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey tiltrotor. However, the RFI suggests that the latter type could be disadvantaged in the new competition, as the navy requires a speed of 140kt (260km/h), or roughly half of the V-22's capability.
Meanwhile, the USN has revealed plans to invest $500 million to keep the current presidential helicopter fleet serviceable until the long-awaited replacement arrives. The VH-3Ds have been in service for nearly 40 years, while the VH-60s became operational in the late 1980s.
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Sikorsky, Lockheed bidding on Presidential helo
Sikorsky, Lockheed Teaming Up
Successful Bid for Presidential Helicopter Contract Would Mark Rebound for United Technologies Unit
By PETER SANDERS
STRATFORD, Conn.—Sikorsky Aircraft Corp. and Lockheed Martin Corp., head-to-head competitors five years ago in the previous contest to build presidential helicopters, are expected to announce Monday that they are teaming up to bid on a new contract for a fleet of Marine One helicopters, according to two people familiar with the details.
Sikorsky, a United Technologies Corp. unit that had built the presidential helicopter since 1957, was handed a stunning defeat in 2005 when the contract was awarded to a European rival, AgustaWestland, which had teamed up with Lockheed on a bid. Around that time, Sikorsky also faced a debilitating strike and erosion of its market share.
But the Navy canceled that Marine One contract last June after repeated delays and cost overruns. If Sikorsky wins the new presidential-helicopter contract, it would cement the company's resurgence after a long rebuilding process.
It isn't known at this time what other companies are preparing to submit a bid. Other bidders could include Boeing Co., Textron Inc.'s Bell Helicopters and Finmeccanica SpA's AgustaWestland. It is likely to be at least a year before the Pentagon names the winning bidder.
A Lockheed official declined to comment ahead of Monday's expected announcement. Sikorsky would build the helicopter and Lockheed would provide the vast array of specialized systems within each craft.
"The opportunity to win that business is something that excites every employee at this company," Jeffrey Pino, Sikorsky's president, said during a recent interview. "It's a real source of pride among all the workers, and people here talk about it all the time."
For Mr. Pino, restoring pride among Sikorsky's work force has been a priority since he took the top job in March 2006.
"Four years ago, we were in fourth place in the industry and we had a work force that didn't get along well with management," he said.
Mr. Pino has since healed fractured relations with unions and positioned the company to take advantage of a Pentagon contract to build Black Hawk helicopters needed in Afghanistan and Iraq. Sikorsky's helicopter business now ranks second, just behind the Eurocopter unit of European Aeronautic Defence & Space Co.
A former Army helicopter pilot and executive at Bell Helicopters, Mr. Pino has seen Sikorsky's revenue spike to $6.3 billion last year from $2.8 billion in 2005. Sikorsky won the five-year, $8.3 billion contract to build a total of 537 Black Hawk and Navy Seahawk helicopters in December 2007.
When Mr. Pino took over, about 3,000 Sikorsky factory workers in Connecticut were in the midst of a six-week strike that crippled the company's production line. Once the walkout ended in April 2006, he set out to regain the workers' trust.
While touring the company's Stratford, Conn., factory shortly after the strike ended, Mr. Pino said, he noticed that many of the workers were wearing motorcycle apparel. An avid rider, he suggested a company motorcycle ride. A few weeks later, he led a motorcycle procession stretching more than a mile through various Connecticut towns.
Mr. Pino said he has sought to include workers' families in events at Sikorsky factories and keep them informed of industry and corporate happenings.
Harvey Jackson, president of Teamsters Local 1150, which represents the company's union workers, said Mr. Pino has made "a gallant and decent effort" to make sure that the improved employee-managementrelations stay intact.
The helicopter business is fragmented. Multiple global companies compete to build two-person trainers, sleek executive craft, workhorse choppers for law enforcement and medical transport, and helicopters for military use.
Sikorsky has long aimed to provide helicopters for the heavy-lift military sector, as well as large helos used in industries such as offshore oil drilling. Its rivals include AgustaWestland, Bell and Eurocopter.
Sikorsky churns out roughly 17 Hawk-family helicopters a month from factories in Connecticut, New York and Florida. As the Obama administration presses the war in Afghanistan, helicopters are the linchpin in the strategy to move troops and materiel around the country.
To clear more space for military production in the U.S., Sikorsky has moved almost all final assembly of its civilian line of large helicopters from its Stratford headquarters to a factory in Pennsylvania. The company plans to open a final-assembly plant in Poland soon to produce for European militaries.
The company has been a bright spot during the recession for UTC, which is based in Hartford, Conn. Sikorsky has added jobs in its home state as UTC's engine-maker Pratt & Whitney and aircraft-parts supplier Hamilton Sundstrand have shuttered factories and laid off workers. Since 2006, Sikorsky has added more than 1,900 jobs at its Connecticut operations alone.
Sikorsky has added about 5,600 jobs world-wide since 2006. The company's global work force now numbers approximately 17,000 employees.
Write to Peter Sanders at [email protected]
Successful Bid for Presidential Helicopter Contract Would Mark Rebound for United Technologies Unit
By PETER SANDERS
STRATFORD, Conn.—Sikorsky Aircraft Corp. and Lockheed Martin Corp., head-to-head competitors five years ago in the previous contest to build presidential helicopters, are expected to announce Monday that they are teaming up to bid on a new contract for a fleet of Marine One helicopters, according to two people familiar with the details.
Sikorsky, a United Technologies Corp. unit that had built the presidential helicopter since 1957, was handed a stunning defeat in 2005 when the contract was awarded to a European rival, AgustaWestland, which had teamed up with Lockheed on a bid. Around that time, Sikorsky also faced a debilitating strike and erosion of its market share.
But the Navy canceled that Marine One contract last June after repeated delays and cost overruns. If Sikorsky wins the new presidential-helicopter contract, it would cement the company's resurgence after a long rebuilding process.
It isn't known at this time what other companies are preparing to submit a bid. Other bidders could include Boeing Co., Textron Inc.'s Bell Helicopters and Finmeccanica SpA's AgustaWestland. It is likely to be at least a year before the Pentagon names the winning bidder.
A Lockheed official declined to comment ahead of Monday's expected announcement. Sikorsky would build the helicopter and Lockheed would provide the vast array of specialized systems within each craft.
"The opportunity to win that business is something that excites every employee at this company," Jeffrey Pino, Sikorsky's president, said during a recent interview. "It's a real source of pride among all the workers, and people here talk about it all the time."
For Mr. Pino, restoring pride among Sikorsky's work force has been a priority since he took the top job in March 2006.
"Four years ago, we were in fourth place in the industry and we had a work force that didn't get along well with management," he said.
Mr. Pino has since healed fractured relations with unions and positioned the company to take advantage of a Pentagon contract to build Black Hawk helicopters needed in Afghanistan and Iraq. Sikorsky's helicopter business now ranks second, just behind the Eurocopter unit of European Aeronautic Defence & Space Co.
A former Army helicopter pilot and executive at Bell Helicopters, Mr. Pino has seen Sikorsky's revenue spike to $6.3 billion last year from $2.8 billion in 2005. Sikorsky won the five-year, $8.3 billion contract to build a total of 537 Black Hawk and Navy Seahawk helicopters in December 2007.
When Mr. Pino took over, about 3,000 Sikorsky factory workers in Connecticut were in the midst of a six-week strike that crippled the company's production line. Once the walkout ended in April 2006, he set out to regain the workers' trust.
While touring the company's Stratford, Conn., factory shortly after the strike ended, Mr. Pino said, he noticed that many of the workers were wearing motorcycle apparel. An avid rider, he suggested a company motorcycle ride. A few weeks later, he led a motorcycle procession stretching more than a mile through various Connecticut towns.
Mr. Pino said he has sought to include workers' families in events at Sikorsky factories and keep them informed of industry and corporate happenings.
Harvey Jackson, president of Teamsters Local 1150, which represents the company's union workers, said Mr. Pino has made "a gallant and decent effort" to make sure that the improved employee-managementrelations stay intact.
The helicopter business is fragmented. Multiple global companies compete to build two-person trainers, sleek executive craft, workhorse choppers for law enforcement and medical transport, and helicopters for military use.
Sikorsky has long aimed to provide helicopters for the heavy-lift military sector, as well as large helos used in industries such as offshore oil drilling. Its rivals include AgustaWestland, Bell and Eurocopter.
Sikorsky churns out roughly 17 Hawk-family helicopters a month from factories in Connecticut, New York and Florida. As the Obama administration presses the war in Afghanistan, helicopters are the linchpin in the strategy to move troops and materiel around the country.
To clear more space for military production in the U.S., Sikorsky has moved almost all final assembly of its civilian line of large helicopters from its Stratford headquarters to a factory in Pennsylvania. The company plans to open a final-assembly plant in Poland soon to produce for European militaries.
The company has been a bright spot during the recession for UTC, which is based in Hartford, Conn. Sikorsky has added jobs in its home state as UTC's engine-maker Pratt & Whitney and aircraft-parts supplier Hamilton Sundstrand have shuttered factories and laid off workers. Since 2006, Sikorsky has added more than 1,900 jobs at its Connecticut operations alone.
Sikorsky has added about 5,600 jobs world-wide since 2006. The company's global work force now numbers approximately 17,000 employees.
Write to Peter Sanders at [email protected]
Lockheed Martin abandons Agustawestland?
Sikorsky and Lockheed Martin Announce teaming agreement to compete for the VXX Presidential helicopter program | Shephard Group
Smart move on behalf of Sikorsky, tough times ahead for the AW-101 in the VXX competition.
Smart move on behalf of Sikorsky, tough times ahead for the AW-101 in the VXX competition.
It looks like the status quo will return The KC-X will go to Boeing with the KC-767 as Airbus have pulled out, CSAR-X went to Sikorsky with more later model Black Hawks Based on UH-60M and MH-60M, The army get more F model Chinooks and the VXX will go to the S-92 as the AW-101 has been pushed aside and everyone is happy , on a side note if the VXX is the S-92 watch how quick the run dry xmssn , 5 blade head and increase gross weight to 13.5 tonne are rolled out which will be good news for the civil market with role ons from the VXX program, S-92 B model anyone.
The CSAR cancelled article was from Jun 09 , last months Australian Aviation had an article that as the CSAR had been cancelled the USAF was just going to buy new Blackhawks to replace the Pavehawks and modify to suit, as the UH60M already has fadec engines and glass cockpit and the MH60M has CT7-8A's fitted and flir and radar , much cheaper and easier options.
The CSAR-X was to replace the Pave Lows in addition to the Blackhawks, also it aimed more to the CSAR mission rather than the SOC typical in/exfiltration one.
Something shall come up soon and I bet Sikorsky shall get the S-92 involved.
Something shall come up soon and I bet Sikorsky shall get the S-92 involved.
Chief Bottle Washer
Boeing to offer Italian AW101 for White House helicopter
By Stephen Trimble
Boeing will secure a license to offer a US-built version of the AgustaWestland AW101 in a move that shakes up a repeat competition to replace the presidential helicopter fleet.
The proposed “Boeing 101” helicopter means the manufacturer of the US Air Force's VC-25 – sometimes known as Air Force One – will compete to supply the White House’s rotary-wing transport.
“We believe we are uniquely positioned to make the most of the [US] Navy’s significant investment in this aircraft,” says Phil Dunford, vice president and general manager of Boeing Rotorcraft.
A Lockheed Martin/AgustaWestland team previously won the presidential helicopter contract in 2004, but a series of required design changes that drove up costs led to the termination of the contract five years later.
Lockheed has now teamed up with Sikorsky, its former rival, to offer the VH-92 to the navy for the presidential helicopter requirement.
Navy officials have launched the competitive process for the so-called VXX contract by starting an analysis of alternatives. A request for proposals is expected to follow the study phase of the contract.
Boeing’s proposal would transfer all intellectual property, data and production rights for the AW101 from Italy and the UK to the USA, the company says.
The move comes as Boeing’s supporters in Congress have attempted to legally restrict the Department to Defense from buying aircraft that have benefitted from subsidies provided by European governments.
Such subsidies have become a key issue in the debate about the competition for the USAF's KC-X tanker, with the Boeing KC-767 NewGen Tanker competing against a modified Airbus A330-200 offered by EADS North America as the KC-45.
By Stephen Trimble
Boeing will secure a license to offer a US-built version of the AgustaWestland AW101 in a move that shakes up a repeat competition to replace the presidential helicopter fleet.
The proposed “Boeing 101” helicopter means the manufacturer of the US Air Force's VC-25 – sometimes known as Air Force One – will compete to supply the White House’s rotary-wing transport.
“We believe we are uniquely positioned to make the most of the [US] Navy’s significant investment in this aircraft,” says Phil Dunford, vice president and general manager of Boeing Rotorcraft.
A Lockheed Martin/AgustaWestland team previously won the presidential helicopter contract in 2004, but a series of required design changes that drove up costs led to the termination of the contract five years later.
Lockheed has now teamed up with Sikorsky, its former rival, to offer the VH-92 to the navy for the presidential helicopter requirement.
Navy officials have launched the competitive process for the so-called VXX contract by starting an analysis of alternatives. A request for proposals is expected to follow the study phase of the contract.
Boeing’s proposal would transfer all intellectual property, data and production rights for the AW101 from Italy and the UK to the USA, the company says.
The move comes as Boeing’s supporters in Congress have attempted to legally restrict the Department to Defense from buying aircraft that have benefitted from subsidies provided by European governments.
Such subsidies have become a key issue in the debate about the competition for the USAF's KC-X tanker, with the Boeing KC-767 NewGen Tanker competing against a modified Airbus A330-200 offered by EADS North America as the KC-45.
I wonder if Boeing is successful with fighting tooth and nail with the Pentagon and White House for the 101. Then they'll have to AgustaWestland will have to aggressively sell the ICH-47F model Chinook to various NATO nations and beyond to the Middle East therefore giving Boeing a larger foothold in the rotorcraft business?
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I can't wait to see Boeing going to the Pentagon one day and argueing long and hard that they should buy american for the KC-X Tanker, then the next day go in and try and sell a European helicopter as their own... absolutely priceless 
Jeez Boeing you do indeed give substance to the long held opinion that Americans don't understand irony!! 
Jeez Boeing you do indeed give substance to the long held opinion that Americans don't understand irony!!
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Interesting article on Boeing's dilemma in yesterday's Av Week shownews. Haven't seen contortions like this since the last time I went to a Cirque du Soleil show. 
I/C
Boeing has to tread carefully as it bids a European helicopter for White House lift requirement
Av Week ShowNews July 20
When it comes to tankers, Boeing is pretty clear that the European aircraft on offer to the U.S. are awful – inferior, subsidized products that will destroy American jobs and hurt the military. When it comes to Presidential helicopters though, Boeing is clear that the European aircraft on offer are by far the best products and any military, let alone any President, would be delighted to fly in them.
With its vituperative anti-Airbus rhetoric, has Boeing dug a hole for itself when it comes to bidding Anglo-Italian AgustaWestland AW101 for the U.S. Navy’s re-launched VXX “Marine 1” Presidential Helicopter competition?
After all, the AW101 was described by its competitors as a helicopter built by “socialists” in the last VXX bidding round (when the AW101 triumphed, you’ll recall) and is a program that has certainly been in receipt of subsidies (for the commercial version).
“There is no contradiction between the tanker and the helicopter programs,” Dennis Mullenberg, president and CEO of Boeing Defense, Space and Security, confidently tells Show News. “It’s true we’ve emphasized the need for a fair and level playing field for KC-X, but our proposed approach for the Presidential Helicopter will generate significantly more U.S. jobs than our competitors.
“The helicopter is different because it will be built in the U.S. by U.S. workers – is not an approach where the helicopter is built elsewhere, like last time. Plus the military 101 never got launch aid. So we think it is very consistent with what we’ve said about the tanker.”
It will also be interesting to watch AgustaWestland’s previous program partner tie itself in knots as it seeks to dismiss the same aircraft that it selected for – and won – the original VXX/VH-71 competition. This time around Lockheed Martin is partnered with VXX loser Sikorsky.
Av Week ShowNews July 20
When it comes to tankers, Boeing is pretty clear that the European aircraft on offer to the U.S. are awful – inferior, subsidized products that will destroy American jobs and hurt the military. When it comes to Presidential helicopters though, Boeing is clear that the European aircraft on offer are by far the best products and any military, let alone any President, would be delighted to fly in them.
With its vituperative anti-Airbus rhetoric, has Boeing dug a hole for itself when it comes to bidding Anglo-Italian AgustaWestland AW101 for the U.S. Navy’s re-launched VXX “Marine 1” Presidential Helicopter competition?
After all, the AW101 was described by its competitors as a helicopter built by “socialists” in the last VXX bidding round (when the AW101 triumphed, you’ll recall) and is a program that has certainly been in receipt of subsidies (for the commercial version).
“There is no contradiction between the tanker and the helicopter programs,” Dennis Mullenberg, president and CEO of Boeing Defense, Space and Security, confidently tells Show News. “It’s true we’ve emphasized the need for a fair and level playing field for KC-X, but our proposed approach for the Presidential Helicopter will generate significantly more U.S. jobs than our competitors.
“The helicopter is different because it will be built in the U.S. by U.S. workers – is not an approach where the helicopter is built elsewhere, like last time. Plus the military 101 never got launch aid. So we think it is very consistent with what we’ve said about the tanker.”
It will also be interesting to watch AgustaWestland’s previous program partner tie itself in knots as it seeks to dismiss the same aircraft that it selected for – and won – the original VXX/VH-71 competition. This time around Lockheed Martin is partnered with VXX loser Sikorsky.
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When the KC-X is discussed, it always seems to come down to a us vs them type of discussion. What really needs to be looked at is the history of the the USAF Tankers. They are not the sexiest aircraft out there (like the fighters and bombers) but it is probably the most important aircraft in the air battle space. It is a force multiplier, that allows combat aircraft to carry more ordinance and fly longer and further. This contract really needs to properly done, because it will effect so many other mission.
Many years ago when the KC10 was ordered, it was said that it would replace the 'old' KC135. It didn't. The reason it didn't was that SAC (Strategic Air Command) had it figured out. Based on SAC's experience, they figured out that during any launch, that X number of aircraft would become mission incapable prior to completing the mission objective. And based on the fact that the tankers are the heaviest used combat aircraft, the odds are that a majority of these mission incapable aircraft would be tankers. Then the more receiving aircraft per tanker, the less likely that enough receiving aircraft will get enough fuel to complete their mission. Leading to a strong possibility of mission failure.
As for the KC-X being used for other roles, it doesn't make any sense to do that. The KC135 has an upper cargo deck, which is hardly ever used. The aircraft is too busy doing its primary mission. Refueling. And that will be the case for the KC-X. It is way too busy refueling to be used just to move trash around.
Plus one other major point. The 135 has been out there for over 50 years, day in and day out. How many 50 year old Airbuses are out there? Boeing has a track record with the Air Force for building long lived airframes. If something works, DON'T F**K with it.
And it looks like someone at Boeing HQ has dropped the ball. They already have the best large helicopter out there for moving personnel, the Chinook.
Many years ago when the KC10 was ordered, it was said that it would replace the 'old' KC135. It didn't. The reason it didn't was that SAC (Strategic Air Command) had it figured out. Based on SAC's experience, they figured out that during any launch, that X number of aircraft would become mission incapable prior to completing the mission objective. And based on the fact that the tankers are the heaviest used combat aircraft, the odds are that a majority of these mission incapable aircraft would be tankers. Then the more receiving aircraft per tanker, the less likely that enough receiving aircraft will get enough fuel to complete their mission. Leading to a strong possibility of mission failure.
As for the KC-X being used for other roles, it doesn't make any sense to do that. The KC135 has an upper cargo deck, which is hardly ever used. The aircraft is too busy doing its primary mission. Refueling. And that will be the case for the KC-X. It is way too busy refueling to be used just to move trash around.
Plus one other major point. The 135 has been out there for over 50 years, day in and day out. How many 50 year old Airbuses are out there? Boeing has a track record with the Air Force for building long lived airframes. If something works, DON'T F**K with it.
And it looks like someone at Boeing HQ has dropped the ball. They already have the best large helicopter out there for moving personnel, the Chinook.
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Chinook the best large helicopter? I think not
It may have a good load fraction but would you really want to put your President in one that often?
Chinook (or rather the BV234 derivative) was busted out of the civil pax market by a combination of vibration, awkward costs and awkward secondary safety issues. Knut Lande showed me round one at Helikopter Service and I couldn't believe the leaks, awkward access panels, tiny emergency exits and large damping masses needed. You could add deep carpets and curtains, but remember all those Sarah Palin lipstick jokes ...
This is an aircraft for hard men, not a regular ride for heads of state.
Chinook (or rather the BV234 derivative) was busted out of the civil pax market by a combination of vibration, awkward costs and awkward secondary safety issues. Knut Lande showed me round one at Helikopter Service and I couldn't believe the leaks, awkward access panels, tiny emergency exits and large damping masses needed. You could add deep carpets and curtains, but remember all those Sarah Palin lipstick jokes ...
This is an aircraft for hard men, not a regular ride for heads of state.
So long as she rotates and vibrates, does that put her in competition for the "Fly Me, I am the President" program? 
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What a saving
Had to laugh when I saw how much was "saved" by cancelling the VH-71
3.3 billion spent
555 million plus unspecified amount for cancellation.
8.4 billion for VH-3D rework.
Sikorsky Gets $8.4B Navy Helicopter Contract. | Planenews Aviation News
The original phase 2 VH-71 was forecast at 13 billion at the time of cancellation but a rescue plan was suggested that would have provided phase 1 aircraft at almost the original contract cost. Surely they would still have been better than reworked VH-3Ds.
Also how much is it going to cost to make the S92 fit the contract???
3.3 billion spent
555 million plus unspecified amount for cancellation.
8.4 billion for VH-3D rework.
Sikorsky Gets $8.4B Navy Helicopter Contract. | Planenews Aviation News
SEATTLE: The U.S. Defense Department said Wednesday it will modify an existing contract with Sikorsky Aircraft Corp. and pay the contractor $8.4 billion for the VH-3D executive helicopter special progressive aircraft rework induction.
Sikorsky, a subsidiary of United Technologies Corp., will perform the work in Stratford, Conn., for the Naval Air systems Command of Patuxent River, Md.
The department said the job is expected to be completed in August 2011.
Sikorsky, a subsidiary of United Technologies Corp., will perform the work in Stratford, Conn., for the Naval Air systems Command of Patuxent River, Md.
The department said the job is expected to be completed in August 2011.
Also how much is it going to cost to make the S92 fit the contract???
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That VH-3D contract was actually only $8.4 million.
Lockheed Martin has received two additional awards this year totaling $70 million for post-cancellation costs, and the VH-71 airframes are still being offered for sale. Rumor has it Canada may take a handful due to airframe corrosion issues with their CH-149s.
$3 billion was a drop in the ocean compared to the $1-3 trillion spent on OIF & OEF, but it would still have been political suicide for any politician (well, other than Rep. Hinchey) to back the procurement of 28 $465 million VIP helicopters during a recession.
I/C
Lockheed Martin has received two additional awards this year totaling $70 million for post-cancellation costs, and the VH-71 airframes are still being offered for sale. Rumor has it Canada may take a handful due to airframe corrosion issues with their CH-149s.
$3 billion was a drop in the ocean compared to the $1-3 trillion spent on OIF & OEF, but it would still have been political suicide for any politician (well, other than Rep. Hinchey) to back the procurement of 28 $465 million VIP helicopters during a recession.
I/C
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Millions?
IC,
Millions sound more likely than billions but 8 million won't go far! This article seems to say the lower figure was a typo, or have I got the wrong end of the stick?
How Much Money Did Canceling the VH-71 Save? | Defense Procurement News
Cheers
Millions sound more likely than billions but 8 million won't go far! This article seems to say the lower figure was a typo, or have I got the wrong end of the stick?
How Much Money Did Canceling the VH-71 Save? | Defense Procurement News
Update — The Associated Press and other media corrected this report to say that it was an extension of a contract worth $8.4 million. The total contract value with the extension is over $8 billion. The point stands that there will be a cost associated with keeping the aging systems working while a new system is developed.
One of the programs that was ended as part of the Obama and Gate’s defense reforms was the new Presidential Transport helicopter. Lockheed Martin (LMT) and its Italian partner, Finmeccanica, had won the contract to build a new helicopter to ferry the President around replacing a fleet of venerable VH-3 and VH-60 aircraft made by Sikorsky (UTC). The program had faced cost and schedule issues due to massive requirements creep that caused the total cost to balloon. In 2009 the Navy pulled the plug on the program and started over.
Because a whole new program began it meant that the existing aircraft would need to extend their planned service lives. Some in Congress, especially Congressman Hinchey (D-NY), who represented the area where Lockheed Martin was doing the work on the program argued that this decision could end up being more expensive then continuing the existing program. Lockheed and Finmeccanica did offer a reduced cost program utilizing the aircraft already purchased that could meet some of the requirements but not all of them. One aspect that was raised that there would be a cost related to continuing the use of the older aircraft as they would need to be maintained and modified to stay in use.
Today the Defense Department announced that they were awarding Sikorsky a contract to carry out “VH-3D executive helicopter special progressive aircraft rework induction.” This means money to overhaul and update the current fleet of VH-3 aircraft. The estimated value of this contract is over $8 billion. This is money that is needed because the President’s aircraft must be maintained to the highest standard.
This does illustrate that in some ways Congressman Hinchey was right. The money saved by ending the VH-71 will now go to keeping the older aircraft flying and starting the new program. Eight billion dollars will buy you a great deal of helicopters and capability. Not neccessarily what you wanted in the VH-71 but certainly it would go a long way to meeting the needs of that program.
Penny wise and pound foolish as my Nana use to say.
Read more: How Much Money Did Canceling the VH-71 Save? | Defense Procurement News
One of the programs that was ended as part of the Obama and Gate’s defense reforms was the new Presidential Transport helicopter. Lockheed Martin (LMT) and its Italian partner, Finmeccanica, had won the contract to build a new helicopter to ferry the President around replacing a fleet of venerable VH-3 and VH-60 aircraft made by Sikorsky (UTC). The program had faced cost and schedule issues due to massive requirements creep that caused the total cost to balloon. In 2009 the Navy pulled the plug on the program and started over.
Because a whole new program began it meant that the existing aircraft would need to extend their planned service lives. Some in Congress, especially Congressman Hinchey (D-NY), who represented the area where Lockheed Martin was doing the work on the program argued that this decision could end up being more expensive then continuing the existing program. Lockheed and Finmeccanica did offer a reduced cost program utilizing the aircraft already purchased that could meet some of the requirements but not all of them. One aspect that was raised that there would be a cost related to continuing the use of the older aircraft as they would need to be maintained and modified to stay in use.
Today the Defense Department announced that they were awarding Sikorsky a contract to carry out “VH-3D executive helicopter special progressive aircraft rework induction.” This means money to overhaul and update the current fleet of VH-3 aircraft. The estimated value of this contract is over $8 billion. This is money that is needed because the President’s aircraft must be maintained to the highest standard.
This does illustrate that in some ways Congressman Hinchey was right. The money saved by ending the VH-71 will now go to keeping the older aircraft flying and starting the new program. Eight billion dollars will buy you a great deal of helicopters and capability. Not neccessarily what you wanted in the VH-71 but certainly it would go a long way to meeting the needs of that program.
Penny wise and pound foolish as my Nana use to say.
Read more: How Much Money Did Canceling the VH-71 Save? | Defense Procurement News