PPRuNe Forums

Go Back   PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Rotorheads
Forgotten your Username/Password?

Rotorheads A haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 14th Jun 2011, 23:31   #1301 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Montreal
Posts: 354
Maybe Jim Lyons can wade in on this one and give us the regulatory intent that seems to be driving some parts of the industry to back-up procedures.

I agree with Spinwing, and I don't know of any pilot that does back up either onshore or offshore. I haven't worked for any employer that endorsed back up procedures as part of their SOP's. The consensus being that you are introducing a hailstorm of real tangible risk for the sake of a statistically improbable engine failure. Like Spinwing, I too have had friends that inadvertently came to grief by letting themselves drift back when coming out of a tight area.
malabo is offline   Reply
Old 15th Jun 2011, 06:59   #1302 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 771
malabo,

It seems rather pointless to comment now that the offending post has been removed. I did not comment originally because I knew others would!

Clearly, anyone who thinks that a back-up procedure should be used offshore does not understand the helideck environment. It is because there is no deterministic procedure (CAT A) that can address all of the environmental conditions (of which cross wind limits is one) that PC1 is not possible offshore.

I can only suggest that, in order to understand the issues, 'outhouse' re-reads the PC2e thread.

I am not aware of any regulatory push towards PC1 offshore although it is clear from comments (that have been made) that the issues are not well understood by some NAAs (even in Europe).

Jim
JimL is offline   Reply
Old 19th Jun 2011, 15:03   #1303 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Global
Posts: 45
The cannon plug for the Float System is the same as the Wiper System and can(was) be reversed. I can't understand how this kind of engineering can be certified.

Also, I was told by DART at the last HAI that the AW109 floats were tested to 110kts.
cayuse365 is offline   Reply
Old 21st Jun 2011, 13:08   #1304 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Spain
Posts: 750
400th AW139 Delivered to the Qatar Armed Forces | Vertical - Helicopter News



Regards
Aser
Aser is offline   Reply
Old 15th Aug 2011, 19:20   #1305 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: A Dessert
Posts: 6
Corporate AW139

Does anyone have real time range and speeds for a de-iced corporate / VIP equipped 139? Interior would be four fwd facing and two aft facing swivel seats operating from sea level landing sites in a cool Euro climate? If it helps then forget the de-ice bit! Two pilots and four pax plus 200lbs bags.
EPacH is offline   Reply
Old 15th Aug 2011, 20:38   #1306 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: ...in view of the 'Southern Cross' ...
Posts: 1,332
Mmm ...

With or without the Aux tanks ??
spinwing is offline   Reply
Old 15th Aug 2011, 22:58   #1307 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Montreal
Posts: 354
Aux tanks? Maybe get the 6800kg increase first. Empty in Corp fit with deice will be close to 5000kg. Add two pilots, 5200. Add 4 stuffed shirts in the back and their 100kg of bags and you are at 5700 kg. 100 kg start and taxi, 200 kg reserve, leaves you one way VFR 400kg fuel, or about 120 miles at 145 knots.

Oh course you spent the big cash on deice so you could go IFR. Two approaches at 75kg, an alternate, and your range is about 20 miles. Go for the 6800 kg gross and you've got a reasonable 170nm. Don't forget all the flight planning limitations with the deice.

You are grossed out before a drop of fuel gets to the aux tank, even at 6800.
malabo is offline   Reply
Old 16th Aug 2011, 09:18   #1308 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Doing SAR somewhere.
Age: 48
Posts: 78
Are you sure about those BOW numbers?
How much does that Corporate and Anti-Ice kit weights? 1000 kg?
A long nose sar version with extra radar, FLIR, double hoists, external rafts , operator console, aux fuel tanks, and A LOT of extra installed equipment and avionics weights around 4400-4500 BOW.
Furia is offline   Reply
Old 17th Aug 2011, 06:17   #1309 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Asia
Age: 50
Posts: 4
More to the point Furia, are you sure about your weights?
frozen cyclic is offline   Reply
Old 17th Aug 2011, 07:59   #1310 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 167
Furia Vs FC

Furia is correct on the Basic wt being approx 4500 for a SAR cab (not sure about with Aux tank). With a crew of 4 and ALL the SAR equipment ready to launch minus any fuel i.e APS wt, you are looking at between 5000-5100kg (less Aux tank).
NRDK is offline   Reply
Old 17th Aug 2011, 12:16   #1311 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Doing SAR somewhere.
Age: 48
Posts: 78
I am very sure about those weights.
Furia is offline   Reply
Old 17th Aug 2011, 14:33   #1312 (permalink)
wde
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 141
Empty weight differential

Hey guys:

Does anyone have an idea on what the delta is for the IPS kit on the AW139 for an identically equipped aircraft? Slip rings, magic boxes, etc?

Thanks

Walt
wde is offline   Reply
Old 21st Aug 2011, 08:25   #1313 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: North bound
Posts: 82
Approx 150 kgs I think.


CB
Collective Bias is offline   Reply
Old 22nd Aug 2011, 11:33   #1314 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: B**f***
Age: 47
Posts: 107
220 kgs actually
sandyhelmet is offline   Reply
Old 22nd Aug 2011, 14:14   #1315 (permalink)
wde
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 141
Thanks

W
wde is offline   Reply
Old 22nd Aug 2011, 15:11   #1316 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: North bound
Posts: 82
Sandyhelmet


220 kg sounded high, I had to check in my Agusta information and it says 160 kg, and this should include glass windshield. I have seen a number of different weights on this kit, where did you get your numbers from?


CB
Collective Bias is offline   Reply
Old 24th Aug 2011, 16:57   #1317 (permalink)
wde
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 141
Pending T/R BT

Does anyone have information on a pending BT that will require the removal and quarantining of AW139 T/R assemblies at the 600 hr mark?

Rumour has it this BT/AD is in the chute and ready to be issued any day now.

wde
wde is offline   Reply
Old 24th Aug 2011, 17:07   #1318 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: California
Posts: 19
Got the call this morning from Agusta Philly PSE. BT139-265 will supersede BT139-251, and PT I is same , but Pt II will require blade removal at 600 hrs and quarantined until investigation of latest Brazilian crash can determine if TR Blade is an issue. BT to be issued today, and would not be surprised to see AD's immediatly following. Unless you have blades with less than 600 hours, you will be sitting and waiting for replacements for a while I believe
KiwiRotorWrench is offline   Reply
Old 25th Aug 2011, 02:24   #1319 (permalink)
wde
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 141
Shell restricts AW139 operations

"From Shell Aviation:

Weve now received confirmation from Agusta Westland that the Brazil AW139 accident has involved the loss of a tail rotor blade and bears similarities to the blade failures of the 2010 Hong Kong accident and 2011 Qatar blade failure.

As a result an Airworthiness Directive (AD) is being issued by EASA that will restrict use of tail rotor blades to a 700hr life limit. The blades that failed on this and the other accidents were between 1500hrs and 2200 hrs. Because that AD is currently held up in EASA, this email is to be taken as an instruction for Shell operations to , before next flight, confirm the current tail rotor blade flight hour life of contracted AW139 aircraft and, until further notice, restrict all AW139 flight to those aircraft with tail rotor blades below 700hrs.

Further advice may be given on the AD when issued and SAI guidance will be reviewed when that is received.

Agusta Westland is developing further testing methods that may extend the 700hr limit, but until those have been proven, the restriction is likely to stay in place.

Consideration has been given to stopping the use of AW139 helicopters altogether, but with the information known, this limitation is considered appropriate at this time.

Im aware that this news may not lessen concern amongst our travelling staff, so further briefing material will be prepared for BU use. If you have any questions or specific concerns, please call


Regards Shell Management"
wde is offline   Reply
Old 25th Aug 2011, 04:11   #1320 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: LOS
Posts: 356
Quote:
Unless you have blades with less than 600 hours, you will be sitting and waiting for replacements for a while I believe
Anyone care to comment on availability of spares? Does AW have a stock pile of blades ready to ship?

BTW, has tail rotor failure been confirmed on the Brasil crash, or is this a cautionary AD based on other events?
Outwest is offline   Reply
Reply
 
 
 


Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 08:20.


vBulletin® v3.8.7, Copyright ©2000-2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network