Bell 412 FADEC
Yes, the Saudi's operate super 412EP's (my name not Bell's), with full MFD glass cockpits ,Flir etc and PT6T-9 twin pac's with Fadec. as for as I know not avail for civilian/commercial sale.
From what I remember from working on the Saudi 412's (was a while ago!!), they aren't fitted with a true FADEC, but rather DEC . Single channel, with manual backup, hence not Full Authority (just like the AW139).
I think we called them 412EP+, but I think they're real name is 412SAR. Can't remember. Training notes don't really say what the model designation is (not mine anyway).
Can't really remember much else. It was all a bad dream!!
They hadn't finished delivering them all before I left
I think we called them 412EP+, but I think they're real name is 412SAR. Can't remember. Training notes don't really say what the model designation is (not mine anyway).
Can't really remember much else. It was all a bad dream!!
They hadn't finished delivering them all before I left
Bell 412EP with digital control PT6T-9 was delivered to RSAF (Bell and Agusta) and to the Turkish Coast Guard (Agusta only).
These controls are essentially the same ones found on the PWC 207 engine (Bell 427). Very reliable system in both cases.
These controls are essentially the same ones found on the PWC 207 engine (Bell 427). Very reliable system in both cases.
I've got 782Mb of manuals for them, but they're all in PDF, and I can't take individual pages out to put them on here. Oh, it doesn't have FADEC, only single channel Digital Engine Control with a manual backup, very similar to the AW139 system. But the 139 system is a lot simpler.
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Ah... I love it when a question drops into my lap.
The Royal Saudi Bell 412.... Sixteen were built (8 by Bell / 8 by Agusta). Agusta built an additional 5 with a follow on of 4 with a mission suite variant for the Turkish Coast Guard --- so a total of 25 were built.
The engine was the PT6T-9 which uses a derrivative of the same FADEC (Pratt & Whitney refer to it as an EEC) that is used on the 427 and the 429. The thing had kick-ass OEI and hot-high performance.
The cockpit used the Rogerson Kratos 6x8 inch MFD displays. These were the first generation of the displays now in the Bell 429. Both of these displays were a far cry better designed than some of RK's EFIS /IIDS stuff that I've heard people lament about on this site. One of the reasons it was so much better was because it was they had a totally different design team for the large MFD. The next generation of the 412 RSAF display system (with Improved resolution display glass, TAWS TCAS improvements, improved video performance for FLIR, EVS, cameras, etc) is now in the Bell 429 avionics. Bell calls the overall avionics package the "Bell BasiX Pro" system (It uses RK displays built, with a Bell-designed autopilotand aircraft systems interface, plus a Honeywell flight sensor package ) The "BasiX Pro" system in the 429 retains all the search and rescue capability that existed in the RSAF.
The RSAF 412 was displayed at the HAI show in Dallas in 2002.
Bell has considered completing civil certification of this 412 variant in the past. It was originally announced as the 412+ in 2001, A later version with the 429 improvements (called the 412 Generation 5) was discussed with the press by previous Bell CEO Mike Redenbaugh. But both these efforts were later cancelled.
The Royal Saudi Bell 412.... Sixteen were built (8 by Bell / 8 by Agusta). Agusta built an additional 5 with a follow on of 4 with a mission suite variant for the Turkish Coast Guard --- so a total of 25 were built.
The engine was the PT6T-9 which uses a derrivative of the same FADEC (Pratt & Whitney refer to it as an EEC) that is used on the 427 and the 429. The thing had kick-ass OEI and hot-high performance.
The cockpit used the Rogerson Kratos 6x8 inch MFD displays. These were the first generation of the displays now in the Bell 429. Both of these displays were a far cry better designed than some of RK's EFIS /IIDS stuff that I've heard people lament about on this site. One of the reasons it was so much better was because it was they had a totally different design team for the large MFD. The next generation of the 412 RSAF display system (with Improved resolution display glass, TAWS TCAS improvements, improved video performance for FLIR, EVS, cameras, etc) is now in the Bell 429 avionics. Bell calls the overall avionics package the "Bell BasiX Pro" system (It uses RK displays built, with a Bell-designed autopilotand aircraft systems interface, plus a Honeywell flight sensor package ) The "BasiX Pro" system in the 429 retains all the search and rescue capability that existed in the RSAF.
The RSAF 412 was displayed at the HAI show in Dallas in 2002.
Bell has considered completing civil certification of this 412 variant in the past. It was originally announced as the 412+ in 2001, A later version with the 429 improvements (called the 412 Generation 5) was discussed with the press by previous Bell CEO Mike Redenbaugh. But both these efforts were later cancelled.
Last edited by Avnx EO; 22nd Dec 2010 at 15:55.
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Bell 412 FADEC
Just to update, in addition to 9 AB412EP (same version of Bell 412RSAF) 6 AB412EP (TCG Version) have been contracted to AW and 5 of them have already been delivered and last one will be scheduled in march 2009. These 412 helicopters are equipped with PT6T-9 EEC controlled engines(with high OEI capability compare with -3 engines), Kratos Integrated Avionic System with 4 (6x8 inch Active Matrix Lycid Cristal Display) displays controlled by Dual Channel Data Acqusition Unit and integrated with all engine / systems parameters, avionics, navigation system (including TCAS),
and additionaly Honeywell 4 Axis Autopilot System, 360 degree radar on top, FLIR, Hoist System.
TCG has been operating these helicopters fully satisfactorily since 2002.
Bahrain has contracted to Bell for same configuration 412 helicopters. I know AW is not willing to manufacture any more 412 helicopters because AW139 compatitor of Bell 412 has very good orders. I hope Bell continues 412RSAF grogramme.....
Any questions are wellcomed.....
and additionaly Honeywell 4 Axis Autopilot System, 360 degree radar on top, FLIR, Hoist System.
TCG has been operating these helicopters fully satisfactorily since 2002.
Bahrain has contracted to Bell for same configuration 412 helicopters. I know AW is not willing to manufacture any more 412 helicopters because AW139 compatitor of Bell 412 has very good orders. I hope Bell continues 412RSAF grogramme.....
Any questions are wellcomed.....
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412 T9
OK guys well I just stumbled onto the site. I am in Calgary Alberta with Our 412 HP from The National Research Council Canada.
Eagle Copters Calgary and us are in a coopertive agreement to do the STC for the T9 install. Bell is not involved in the program why we have no Idea. If anybody could provide us with Pictures Of the RSAF 412 It would be much appreciated we are looking for some engine pictures specifically the Cam mixing boxes and ducting for Bleed valve and belly band venting..Here are a few pictures of the work started..Hopefully have it done by October
Again Guys If anyone has pictures of an rsaf or Turkish coast Guard please send them on!!
This is a Great project and will make the 412 a really great machine!
Eagle Copters Calgary and us are in a coopertive agreement to do the STC for the T9 install. Bell is not involved in the program why we have no Idea. If anybody could provide us with Pictures Of the RSAF 412 It would be much appreciated we are looking for some engine pictures specifically the Cam mixing boxes and ducting for Bleed valve and belly band venting..Here are a few pictures of the work started..Hopefully have it done by October
Again Guys If anyone has pictures of an rsaf or Turkish coast Guard please send them on!!
This is a Great project and will make the 412 a really great machine!
Chief Bottle Washer
copter doctor,
Welcome to Rotorheads
It is worth remembering that this is an International forum, and many others will still be abed around the globe while you are waiting on a reply. Even a few days could be expected for a specialised answer to a question such as yours: maybe you can tell us more about your project?
Welcome to Rotorheads
It is worth remembering that this is an International forum, and many others will still be abed around the globe while you are waiting on a reply. Even a few days could be expected for a specialised answer to a question such as yours: maybe you can tell us more about your project?
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Lets just say we are totally not impressed with Bell and their lack of interest in making the 412 better so we have came to Eagle Copters Calgary to have this upgrade..
Here are a few more pictures of the T9 engines sitting in place..
Here are a few more pictures of the T9 engines sitting in place..
CopterDoctor,
what's that belt driven device at the rear of the MGB?
what's that belt driven device at the rear of the MGB?
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Mmmmm ....
...... what's that belt driven device at the rear of the MGB? ....
Looks suspiciously like an Air Conditioning compressor drive ....
...... what's that belt driven device at the rear of the MGB? ....
Looks suspiciously like an Air Conditioning compressor drive ....
Copter Doctor, I think Bell figured out that a heavier 412 with the same power was not what the customers wanted. The electrical wizardry for the engines took up quite a bit or room, and added weight, for no appreciable advantage over the old -3DF engine.
Reliability wise...... there wasn't any real change. Not having to change N2 actuators was about the only thing you didn't have to do anymore, but that was offset by the stupid flight idle set up that now had an idle stop on the way up as well as on the way down.
Are you going glass cockpit at the same time? There will be lots of wiring just for the engines, so why not go the whole hog and put screens up front??
Reliability wise...... there wasn't any real change. Not having to change N2 actuators was about the only thing you didn't have to do anymore, but that was offset by the stupid flight idle set up that now had an idle stop on the way up as well as on the way down.
Are you going glass cockpit at the same time? There will be lots of wiring just for the engines, so why not go the whole hog and put screens up front??
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t9
Yes your right that is an airconditioning unit made by Aircomm, Great unit very cool and we only installed half the evaporaters, As far as the increased weight we are seeing none. The engine comes in Lighter than the 3BE also the pluses of No govenors at all No actuators to beep no P3 filters no Jackshafts no heated airlines. The eec weigh in at 3 pounds a piece very compact mount under the engine on the forward bay wall aft side of the fuel tanks. We are not going Glass as we have Our own displays that we put in and take out depending on the project we are doing at the time.
Only glass we are going to install is a small display to display the Fadec or I guess in this case the eec faults and the 30 minute OEI info. just the bare minimums that we need. I hear that the RSAF 412 was at HAI in 1998 did anyone happen to get some pictures?
Only glass we are going to install is a small display to display the Fadec or I guess in this case the eec faults and the 30 minute OEI info. just the bare minimums that we need. I hear that the RSAF 412 was at HAI in 1998 did anyone happen to get some pictures?
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copter doctor to quote you..."This is a Great project and will make the 412 a really great machine!"
Surely you are taking the p**s. The 212/412 gives me a living because so much has been shoe horned into what was a great airframe from the 205. If time could be wound back I reckon Bell should have put maximum effort into making that twinpack into a quick change unit.
Target time would be like the Puma, say an engine change in one hour with one man on the engine removal and one on the winch, or am I wishing for too much.
Surely you are taking the p**s. The 212/412 gives me a living because so much has been shoe horned into what was a great airframe from the 205. If time could be wound back I reckon Bell should have put maximum effort into making that twinpack into a quick change unit.
Target time would be like the Puma, say an engine change in one hour with one man on the engine removal and one on the winch, or am I wishing for too much.
Karl?, (copter doctor?) If thats you, pictures of helicopters are that last thing I thought you would use the internet for...
ps. I'm still waiting for my bottle of rye from QC. lol
ps. I'm still waiting for my bottle of rye from QC. lol