IntheTin You make a couple of very good points and many "senior" pilots have probably forgotten more than they have actually learnt and asking them about the basics they learnt at flight school often results in puzzeled looks. But they do have something else from their years in the saddle and those basics are quickly learnt again. It's an interesting debate and I know many pilots have launched their careers through teaching and many of the skills they learn through being an instructor will stay with them for their entire career. But for me, I will always feel that a pilot with a bit of commercial time under his belt, even some bush flying which often calls on the "seat of the pants" will be the best grounding to make the best instructors. I'm not talking about getting a start and how best to do it, merely what an instructor is best equipped with to make a better one!!! Note I said a better instructor, not necessarliy a better pilot. Instructors really need "war stories" as this is where the wisdom comes from and they will serve a student better if this comes from logging camps, exploration or mining camps and mustering camps than from an hours building ferry flight. AV8
Hi Friday0815, the best will probably be to contact a "Luftbild" company. They also take low hour pilots. One of the reasons is money. Don't expect to much. It's got for making hours. Do that for 3 or 4 years and you will have 1500 h or even more and the you're ready for the real thing. But be aware that they will send you to easy to fly areas. The Black Forest or the Alps region is not a good area to start. In the winter season you may start your dusting and spraying course with a different company. That's the way I would do it know. I came from the Army in 1983 with about 3000 hours. No prob to get a job
thats a very good idea to look into the "Luftbild" company! I think Iam going to vistit them in the near future and as a bonus Iknow they sometimes fly the 500
May be i'm wrong, but i feel we have the most discussions again and again and again... 1. How can i be a pilot? 2. How can i find a job? 3. Low time instructors or rookies versus the real (helicopter) life. 4. Why are the most operators so bad or why have lowtimers only limited chances to get a job?
Quote:
Iam from Germany and soon to be an commercial pilot
Why don't search the forum first? Why don't inform you from first hand (operators) before becoming a pilot? Why is a "soon becoming helicopterpilot" so surprised about the business? Spencers advice is good, but it's not an advice. It's the absolute normal (lowtimers) way in germany, a beginner should know. There is only one but a big "Luftbild" company. Give them a call or visit. But don't be surprised, if you don't be an active (licensed) pilot, you are only a (not so warm welcomed)public visitor and you will only hear public visitor talk. And by the way to destroy other daydreams also for a "Luftbild" job you should have at least 300-500h. And "Luftbild" is very hot to give beginners "a bonus Iknow they sometimes fly the 500".
hey tecpilot, if you think that there are too many of these threads around...why are you answering them???
Why I wasnt searching in this forum before I startet? Well I didnt know about this forum before I started!!!!
..And ask operators before getting started??? You have one funny sense of humor!! Why ??? because try asking somebody whos trying to sella product... they always tell you there will be a couple of jobs when your done ....and I also know that all heli pilots (except may be pilots who come out of the service) have to be a littel crazy....paying 150000€ for something that might not be there future...for those ,Including me ,flying is their life!!! so forgive me if I try to get some good advise from some (maybe) future flying buddys. We are a small group of people with the best job in the world...so we should stick together....but thats may be just my oppinion.
Well...I cant' resist Save your money, buy a house.There are so many people, especially in Germany who think flying is their "life". But there are too many pilots now for too few jobs. Prices are down, you can't feed a family from €2500 gross, which leaves you less than €1600 after tax. That is not for a low timer, by the way. You have a 50 to 70 hour week, the LBA is after you, and the operators tell you they can't pay more. The fact is they don't need to, the market is flooded. There are so many "Oh, I just want to fly" idiots.
"Luftbild" (Airphoto) is nothing for beginners, it is very sophisticated flying, done it. That job is not about flying a helicopter, it is about judging at what time of the day you will hit that village to get the best shots at the best angle without seeing a shadow, for how long can I stay over that spot at what altitude before people call the police complaining about that noisy bastard circling their homes.
Opportunities are quite good in the UK and Ireland at the minute, though if you are newly qualified you are in the "Catch 22" position of needing good experience to get a job, and needing a good job to get the experience. Have you considered the instructor route? maybe not exactly what you want to do, but a good way to build experience and they are starting to become scarce over here, so pay rates are starting to creep up, not before time! The other alternative is to spend lots of money on an IR and look for a co-pilot job in the off-shore industry or maybe on a large corporate helicopter. If you are determined enough you will get there....
Good luck,
Regards, BC.
I'm a CFI in the USA-what are the requirements to fly in the UK and Ireland these days? Also, what is a good place to look for positions there as well?
JAA CPL/FI(H) and you're fine Means taking exams, no shortcuts or conversions.
I'd like to know how having those qualifications makes any difference at the minute. Not many jobs out there, even if you have an IR on top of all that. Low experience levels are not what operators want, from what I see.
Maybe I'm missing something, but doesn't instructing lead to more low hour pilots that are all fighting for their first job? And then there's more instructing to give the low hour pilot their instructor rating, just so they can go and train more wanna-be's, so that they can...?
To all those that are advising instructing, remember you are adding to the problem of too many in-experienced pilots. As was said earlier, the flight training schools/companies are happy to tell you want you want to hear (that you will get a job), so that they can take your money.
It's an artifically created, or false, economy. The only winner? Whoever owns the school.
Just my 2 cents worth (GST exempt for training purposes)
Thecontroller Your comment "Makes you realise how easy the ex-mil lot have it", makes me think there is a little professional jealousy there. Do you truely believe what you said? The selection process alone to become a military pilot is extremely difficult and the pace at which they have to learn or drop out is quite staggering. To earn military wings is no easy task so if these chaps opt for civie life then as far as I am concerned, they have earnt the right for it being a little easier to get a "turbine job" than their civilian friends with only pistion time. And to you "Good Grief", why on earth pick on people who want to be pilots by calling them "Oh, I just want to fly idiots"? Most of us know the difficulties of getting a job, especially the first one but ask yourself why you are a pilot (if you are one) and most of us would agree because it has been a long time passion. People are allowed to be "wannabes" as you and others are calling them but try a little constructive advice rather advice than telling to basically get lost. It would have to be one of the toughest industries in the world to get in to but one of the most rewarding and my advice to new comers, just don't give up because pilots around the world are retiring everyday and slots have to be filled and if you in the right place at the right time, you will get a start and there is no magic solution to getting one. It really comes down to being in the right place at the right time with the right qualifications. (or your father owning a helicopter company) AV8
Maybe I'm missing something, but doesn't instructing lead to more low hour pilots that are all fighting for their first job? And then there's more instructing to give the low hour pilot their instructor rating, just so they can go and train more wanna-be's, so that they can...?
To all those that are advising instructing, remember you are adding to the problem of too many in-experienced pilots. As was said earlier, the flight training schools/companies are happy to tell you want you want to hear (that you will get a job), so that they can take your money.
It's an artifically created, or false, economy. The only winner? Whoever owns the school.
Just my 2 cents worth (GST exempt for training purposes)
The largest part is instruction for the PPL. In fact I wonder how many people are training for a CPL in the UK/Ireland, I never come across one. There are a lot of older people, succesfull in live who want to fly helicopters either as a hobby or for their business. The instruction market is quite good at the moment and you can do instruction as a career as well, and there can be money in instructing. I don't see why everybody has to go fly the North Sea as if that's the highest one can achieve.
hahahahaha Glad I am not the only grumpy bugger out here and by the way - all those who are negative in their comments about instructing or wages or conditions: I endorse your every word. If you are new, listen carefully to the wise comments above! hahahahahaha
Well, I forone have mixed feelings about all this. On one hand, a low time instructor is alert, filled with modern skills about how to get things into peoples' heads and most likely strictly by the book. On the other hand, a high time instructur has the experience to share, will most likely be able to handle most situations and has an air of determination, confidence and experience surrounding him (or her).
I guess somewhere in the middle would be good. And I guess that the "bad habits built up" argument get less valid with the added JAR requirements for currency of teaching skills. I guess...
I had an older, extremely experienced (18 000 hrs plus) flight isntructor sharing the load with a young guy (2 300 hrs) who had all the modern stuff in place. I wouldn't change that for the world. Great combination, both with high time, though.
About the young, 400 hr, instructors; I guess they can be damned good too if they're made from "the right stuff" and themselves had an experienced instructor. I don't want to see the tradition being carried from one 400 hr guy to the next in the long run.
(Just moved a Jetranger from Stockholm to London - GREAT FLIGHT!)
And to you "Good Grief", why on earth pick on people who want to be pilots by calling them "Oh, I just want to fly idiots"? Most of us know the difficulties of getting a job, especially the first one but ask yourself why you are a pilot (if you are one) and most of us would agree because it has been a long time passion. People are allowed to be "wannabes" as you and others are calling them but try a little constructive advice rather advice than telling to basically get lost.
AV8
@IAV82
You obviously didn't get my point, sorry for expressing myself so badly. I don't pick on people who want to be pilots. I was there myself, now I am on the inside (Yep, a pilot). Would I have known then what I know now, I might have reconsidered.
Since I am an instructor teaching also CPLs I have nothing against new graduates, I don't call anybody a wannabe. But... I don' t like the guys who just spent a fortune ( I call it an investment and those call for interest in return) and then say:" Na, don't pay me, need hours, flying for food or just expenses". They are responsible for the unjustified low wages, they don't even bother making less money than your cleaning woman.
I walked away from operators saying " I can't afford working for that kind of money, good bye" When everybody does so, we will all be happier.
20000€ net /year for 700 hours of commercial flying including instruction + 1200 hours of ground instruction and office duties ? NO!
I am not aware of any jobs in particular(but I'm sure there are poeple on here who may be), but just want to say in places like South East Asia, India etc, find out about converting your license for those countries, as I have heard it can be quite difficult for expats in some cases.
From what I have heard, if you are a low hour pilot and want to convert, the process can be a long, expensive and stressful one.
Eg in Malaysia(even for non expats) if you have less than 400 hours and wish to convert, for fixed wing you have to fly 35 hours twin. I am not sure what the rule is for rotary but I wouldnt be surprised if its the same rule, i.e. 35 hours twin heli flying for the conversion, so that in itself will cost a lot.
Maybe someone who has done it can enlighten you, as this is just what I have heard from people who have gone through the process
!!
