Are you busy?
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: down south
Age: 56
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I’ve been instructing for 3 years now and have to say its easy to get really feed up with the job, I think the problem is that we simply don’t stand up for ourselves enough and our employers know that or act as if there is another instructor just around the corner( normally someone you have trained
). I have over 2000 hours now. Last year was really good with about 80 hours a month through the summer but this year I’m about 25% down. The problem is we all spend about 75 K on our own training and are so so grateful to get our first job and that blessed hourly rate. But after a short time with no job security, no pension, holiday , sickness, long hours an no weekends off its easy to get a bit disillusioned. Not sure what the answer is really but I have found that if you keep plugging your own corner then slowly things do improve. Was suggested to me that I come in all the time when weathers bad and diaries empty but replied that my token gesture of a retainer I get paid doesn’t cover that . The big problem is that heli instructors are treated as fixed wing guys but where as there end goal is an airline job at 800 hours we are stuck in the lower ends for longer. Maybe we should get a union 
). I have over 2000 hours now. Last year was really good with about 80 hours a month through the summer but this year I’m about 25% down. The problem is we all spend about 75 K on our own training and are so so grateful to get our first job and that blessed hourly rate. But after a short time with no job security, no pension, holiday , sickness, long hours an no weekends off its easy to get a bit disillusioned. Not sure what the answer is really but I have found that if you keep plugging your own corner then slowly things do improve. Was suggested to me that I come in all the time when weathers bad and diaries empty but replied that my token gesture of a retainer I get paid doesn’t cover that . The big problem is that heli instructors are treated as fixed wing guys but where as there end goal is an airline job at 800 hours we are stuck in the lower ends for longer. Maybe we should get a union
Join Date: Dec 2007
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From a students point of view, I have had to postpone my training for the time being due to the increased cost of the lessons as the fuel costs went up........wonder how many others have done the same?
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In Between Places
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Things have changed somewhat dramatically. As far as I know, schools in the US have slowed down due to students not being able to get financed. I would imagine this is true in Europe as well, as I heard schools in Ireland and Uk had slowed too.
As far as onshore commercial work, in my view it has collapsed very badly. It's a struggle to get work these days. Just look at all the operators and it's clear as day. Canada's industry has tumbled, due to oil and gas crashing. I had heard companies in England and Ireland have fallen dramatically - we all know that there is hardly any work left in Ireland!
The U.S. seems to still be somewhat going a bit, with most of the work being offered in EMS, as the GOM has slowed too, and Bristow (Air Logistics) has been letting go of people there. Offshore I have heard Bristow is still letting people go, and CHC had been letting go of their contract pilots. It's pretty bad times in my books.
As far as onshore commercial work, in my view it has collapsed very badly. It's a struggle to get work these days. Just look at all the operators and it's clear as day. Canada's industry has tumbled, due to oil and gas crashing. I had heard companies in England and Ireland have fallen dramatically - we all know that there is hardly any work left in Ireland!
The U.S. seems to still be somewhat going a bit, with most of the work being offered in EMS, as the GOM has slowed too, and Bristow (Air Logistics) has been letting go of people there. Offshore I have heard Bristow is still letting people go, and CHC had been letting go of their contract pilots. It's pretty bad times in my books.
We're busier than ever. 
Just had to take on more staff to cope. That's just one of our bases and can't comment on the other ones.
That could all change in an instant if the contracts are lost to the competition, I guess.
6 operators now working the offshore sector in Southern North Sea. That means lots of competition and the requirement for companies to get their sh&t together.
Just had to take on more staff to cope. That's just one of our bases and can't comment on the other ones.That could all change in an instant if the contracts are lost to the competition, I guess.
6 operators now working the offshore sector in Southern North Sea. That means lots of competition and the requirement for companies to get their sh&t together.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Close to the hangar, UK.
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I think we have a tale of two industries. If you're working for an operator whose business is largely contract driven then those contracts have to be serviced and very little has changed (except for a probable cost cutting exercise that any sensible business would undertake). Workers still need transporting and pipelines don't inspect themselves.
If you are working in the pleasure flying, charter, training and freelance sector then (speaking for the UK) I'd have thought you're a lot better at sudoku and DIY than you were 12 months ago. There's so little charter work around that pilots and operators aren't bothering keeping up Base and Line checks and pleasure trips (voucher flights etc) are very slow.
I know some cock will reply to this telling us all how wonderful life is for them and how they're flying 150hrs / month - but (if that's even true) it's very much the exception.
For those new to the industry the options are very limited (as ever). There's no point in becoming an FI when most schools have limited students and there's no point in getting an IR to join the back of a very long queue of twin/IFR pilots almost all of whom probably have 5 to 10 times the hours in their logbooks.
Tough times indeed.
If you are working in the pleasure flying, charter, training and freelance sector then (speaking for the UK) I'd have thought you're a lot better at sudoku and DIY than you were 12 months ago. There's so little charter work around that pilots and operators aren't bothering keeping up Base and Line checks and pleasure trips (voucher flights etc) are very slow.
I know some cock will reply to this telling us all how wonderful life is for them and how they're flying 150hrs / month - but (if that's even true) it's very much the exception.
For those new to the industry the options are very limited (as ever). There's no point in becoming an FI when most schools have limited students and there's no point in getting an IR to join the back of a very long queue of twin/IFR pilots almost all of whom probably have 5 to 10 times the hours in their logbooks.
Tough times indeed.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Germany
Age: 53
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Busy?
It's weird, we always used to have some slow month during winter time but this year we've been busier than during summer time. Training went up, charter went up, aerial work went up. The only thing which is slow right now is aerial filming (we used to do a lot of that stuff).
However, we are about to get another helicopter by May.
However, we are about to get another helicopter by May.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The land of the cranberry
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Things are slow in the US right now. Financing, as was said earlier is the big thing. We've plenty of interested people but the financial side is the main issue. Things are bad when even Bristow Academy's number have dropped and they have stopped hiring instructors!!!!
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Wiltshire
Age: 50
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Is it madness....?
... to want (or even try) to join this industry right now? I'm a PPL(H) who's just lost his office job and looking at new directions. Been ummin/ahhin about taking the leap to CPL/ATPL for a year or so, and am now wondering if losing my job is a sign/push. Have got the money, but it is a big bet.
Am I crazy? will there be jobs for low-hours frozen ATPL's or - as someone mentioned earlier - will I be at the back of a long (and more experienced) queue?
Am I crazy? will there be jobs for low-hours frozen ATPL's or - as someone mentioned earlier - will I be at the back of a long (and more experienced) queue?
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: London, UK
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Getting and keeping for length of career a Class 1 medical is the first prerequisite.
On the financial side rather than the fulfillment, this is also worth considering/understanding:
PwC Northern Ireland - Public sector tortoises pension off private sector hares
On the financial side rather than the fulfillment, this is also worth considering/understanding:
PwC Northern Ireland - Public sector tortoises pension off private sector hares
Busy...not yet, on contract earning money...yep. Both mine and our sister company have 6 out of 10 total aircraft out on fire contracts already. Shaping up to be a busy year in fire.
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Boundary Layer
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Cost of Training
No, we are not as busy as we have been - times are tight but we still battle on.
Sorry to be frank folks, but the reality of operating in the UK is that helicopter training is expensive. Helicopter Training is probably the most marginal business I have ever looked at financially speaking. On the whole we, as an industry, have been undercharging for what we do for the last 15 years.
Instructors:
In what other profession would you spend £50k to qualify and then be expected to work for £50 per flying hour that's £25 per hour by the time you have briefed. You only get paid when you fly and that's only when the weather is nice (my solicitor charges £200 per hour just to talk).
Owners:
They just about cover their normal out goings at £90 per hour on an R22 if it works hard - 40 hours per month - and that's without unscheduled maintenance. Not much of a return on capital.
Flying Schools:
A flying school making a gross profit of £50 per hour is doing well but will probably only just break even at the net level.
Fuel:
Our fuel has gone up by 43p per litre in the last 18 months - that's £17 per hour (R22) - our prices have only rise £12 per hour as that is all the market will stand, so we are £5 per hour down on last year already.
Landing Fees:
Airfields are looking to replace lost volume by increasing charges on base operators who are tied in.
CAA:
We all know what great value for money they are.
Insurance
£9,000 per heli, per year - regardless of how much you fly.
All said and done £310 per hour is expensive but it is a lot less than we should be charging - trouble is there are too many operators for a limited market - supply outweighs demand.
NB
These figures make no provision for insurance excesses on an accident or legal costs following a problem or incident. Given the potential risks (financial & physical) involved in what we do, this is crazy.
The fact is that none of us are in this business for the money, we do it because we love it and are prepared to operate at very fine margins to carry on. We are also proud of what we do and get a kick out of passing on the knowledge. Those who do it well will be a bit more expensive but will still be busy - ish.
The market is very fragile at the moment but our industry is not alone - we are top end so there is a certain set who will always be able to afford to fly - trouble is there are fewer of them around at moment.
No need to cry for us - its our own fault - but please be realistic about what you get for your money - use of an expensive asset, services of a professional instructor for a couple of hours, insurance, £70's worth of fuel, ATC service plus the most incredible experience you can have in my opinion.
If you don't want to pay the price - don't do it - go somewhere where its cheaper but work out why its cheaper, where are the costs being cut?
As regards paying up front - its your decision - a big discount may indicate a company looking cash flow benefits - that's not necessarily because they are in trouble - maybe just good financial management. On the other hand don't bleat if they go bust and you lose your money. A discount of £10 per hour may seem like having but is scarce recompence if you lose £1,000.
CH
Sorry to be frank folks, but the reality of operating in the UK is that helicopter training is expensive. Helicopter Training is probably the most marginal business I have ever looked at financially speaking. On the whole we, as an industry, have been undercharging for what we do for the last 15 years.
Instructors:
In what other profession would you spend £50k to qualify and then be expected to work for £50 per flying hour that's £25 per hour by the time you have briefed. You only get paid when you fly and that's only when the weather is nice (my solicitor charges £200 per hour just to talk).
Owners:
They just about cover their normal out goings at £90 per hour on an R22 if it works hard - 40 hours per month - and that's without unscheduled maintenance. Not much of a return on capital.
Flying Schools:
A flying school making a gross profit of £50 per hour is doing well but will probably only just break even at the net level.
Fuel:
Our fuel has gone up by 43p per litre in the last 18 months - that's £17 per hour (R22) - our prices have only rise £12 per hour as that is all the market will stand, so we are £5 per hour down on last year already.
Landing Fees:
Airfields are looking to replace lost volume by increasing charges on base operators who are tied in.
CAA:
We all know what great value for money they are.
Insurance
£9,000 per heli, per year - regardless of how much you fly.
All said and done £310 per hour is expensive but it is a lot less than we should be charging - trouble is there are too many operators for a limited market - supply outweighs demand.
NB
These figures make no provision for insurance excesses on an accident or legal costs following a problem or incident. Given the potential risks (financial & physical) involved in what we do, this is crazy.
The fact is that none of us are in this business for the money, we do it because we love it and are prepared to operate at very fine margins to carry on. We are also proud of what we do and get a kick out of passing on the knowledge. Those who do it well will be a bit more expensive but will still be busy - ish.
The market is very fragile at the moment but our industry is not alone - we are top end so there is a certain set who will always be able to afford to fly - trouble is there are fewer of them around at moment.
No need to cry for us - its our own fault - but please be realistic about what you get for your money - use of an expensive asset, services of a professional instructor for a couple of hours, insurance, £70's worth of fuel, ATC service plus the most incredible experience you can have in my opinion.
If you don't want to pay the price - don't do it - go somewhere where its cheaper but work out why its cheaper, where are the costs being cut?
As regards paying up front - its your decision - a big discount may indicate a company looking cash flow benefits - that's not necessarily because they are in trouble - maybe just good financial management. On the other hand don't bleat if they go bust and you lose your money. A discount of £10 per hour may seem like having but is scarce recompence if you lose £1,000.
CH
Join Date: Sep 2000
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Apt advertising
Drifting off thread, while browsing without logging in, this particular thread had an advert for the "National Debt Line" at the bottom of it! Psychic or what?
Join Date: Oct 2004
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..... should probably forward that on to [email protected] 
Well, one of our 5 full-time pilots is on managed hours as he's reached his 800/year limit. Some of us are getting close to 700... so yes, there is one unit which is pretty busy