Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Rotorheads
Reload this Page >

Number of rotor blades?

Wikiposts
Search
Rotorheads A haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them

Number of rotor blades?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 31st Mar 2008, 14:02
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Home
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Question Number of rotor blades?

Im wondering why some helicopter have two baldes and others have six. Is it to do with the amount fo lift being needed to be produced? could someone please give me an answer which utilses physics...


Thanks
FAAjon is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2008, 14:24
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Each blade acts as a wing and depending upon it's shape and size the amount of lift it can generate will vary. The number of blades is a fundamental starting point for the design of a rotor system. Depending upon your level of maths and engineering knowledge a good book to look at might be "principles of helicopter aerodynamics" by J.G. Leisham.
Chopper Doc Junior is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2008, 15:08
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: KPHL
Posts: 340
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The surface area of the wing is directly proportional to the amount of lift produced (google "lift equation" if you don't know this one already). Increasing the number of blades is one way to increase the surface area.

With every design change comes a compromise. More blades means a more complex head, potentially more components, storage can be more difficult (than a 2 blade), etc.

Another way of increasing the area are to increase the length of each blade, but that means you have a larger rotor diameter so you need bigger landing areas, more strength requirements for the blade, and you will experience compressibility effects at a lower forward airspeed.

You could also increase the blade chord to increase the surface area, I think the biggest issue here is you get more blade twisting concerns, and center of lift changes (becomes a structural issue). I'm sure other ppruners have better detail on the pros and cons of increasing blade chord.

Matthew.
Matthew Parsons is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2008, 17:51
  #4 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Home
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Oh great stuff, thanks.
FAAjon is offline  
Old 1st Apr 2008, 15:48
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,852
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If you've ever had a ride in a Bell 206/204/205/212 with 2 blades versus an
AS350 or a machine with 3 or more blades you'll definitely notice a difference.
rotornut is offline  
Old 12th Aug 2008, 20:19
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: north pole
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Number of blades

I've been flying helicopters for a few years now and have always wondered and could never answer the question 'Why are helicopters designed with a differant number of blades??? whats the reasoning behind a 2,3,4 or 5 bladed aircraft?
winchman is offline  
Old 12th Aug 2008, 20:38
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 956
Received 3 Likes on 1 Post
Tradeoffs. 2 Bladed is cheap to make and maintain but not as manoeverable and are slower.

Multibladed have a smaller diameter disk so may have lower tip speed hence less issues with retreating blade stall, disymmetry of lift and supersonic tip speeds and hence allow faster flight speed. Multibladed ships take up a lot more hangar space.
krypton_john is offline  
Old 12th Aug 2008, 21:00
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Gloucestershire, UK
Age: 55
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I remember hearing that 2 bladed is good for hover performance and 4 bladed is good for cruise performance but I can't remember the source or how true that is.
KrisRamJ is offline  
Old 12th Aug 2008, 21:01
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Below Escape Velocity
Posts: 416
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Multibladed have a smaller diameter disk so may have lower tip speed hence less issues with retreating blade stall, disymmetry of lift and supersonic tip speeds and hence allow faster flight speed.
...until they start getting big (and heavy). Then you have to reduce RRPM to keep tip speed under control... and once you do that, you start running into disk loading issues and total blade surface area which increases chord width (for a given diameter) and so on. Imagine a heavy helicopter with two blades and you can see where da Vinci got his ideas...

Um... lifting... is offline  
Old 12th Aug 2008, 22:11
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Redding CA, or on a fire somewhere
Posts: 1,959
Received 50 Likes on 15 Posts
Solidity ratio maybe.
Gordy is offline  
Old 13th Aug 2008, 00:29
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Middle of the Pacific
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Devil

I always thought it was a Ford vs. Chevy kind of thing.
TheVelvetGlove is offline  
Old 13th Aug 2008, 02:22
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ireland
Age: 46
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Which gives rise to another important question...

I took the first student I ever had onto the ramp to talk about safety etc and he pretty much immediately asked me: "so why does the 2 bladed helicopter go faster than the one with 3 blades?". That question never came up in the CFI!
Chickenhawk1 is offline  
Old 13th Aug 2008, 11:45
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, UK
Posts: 1,334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
In general, the higher the number of blades the less vibration will be transmitted through the rotor hub. This is judged against minimising the number for cost. You can't stop each blade from flapping & twisting at specific frequencies, but more blades means they all vibrate in phase at a higher frequency.

There is a lot more to this, but for a full understanding you need to look up Campbell plots and symmetric and antisymmetric resonance modes. Just accept that designers try to fit as few blades as the dynamics will allow...
Graviman is offline  
Old 13th Aug 2008, 11:54
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Belfort
Age: 42
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You have to know that lift is pricipaly function of the wing surface. In the case of helicopters, the device offering lift is the blades. Increasing the number of the blades increase the lift surface, which means, depending on your helicopter wight and shape, the number of blades is determined to produce enough lift to maintain the airplane in the air.
kaptene is offline  
Old 13th Aug 2008, 13:42
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Los Angeles, USA
Age: 52
Posts: 1,631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'd say that 2 blade helicopters exist for two reasons only:

1. Rotor system is easy and cheap to manufacture.
2. Ease of storing helicopter.

In all other aspects they're worse than a multi-blade rotor, I'd say. They mast bump, they make more noise, they fly rough, they get weird gravity centers (long masts) and so on.
AdamFrisch is offline  
Old 13th Aug 2008, 16:48
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: West Africa
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Just ask Captain Hollywood

I contacted a representative from the manufacturer of the R66 Goat Mk eleventy three?....Captain Hollywood.

As it turns out it seems he will make a helicopter with any number of rotors you want.

I based my choice purely on how it sounded.

Yes maintanance costs are a little high but you should hear my 17 bladed main rotor and 6 bladed rear rotor's..(thats right twin tail boomed) when its purring along on final.

Sweet.

Thanks Captain Hollywood.

Fizics is for dummies.

HF
HELOFAN is offline  
Old 13th Aug 2008, 16:57
  #17 (permalink)  

Hovering AND talking
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
Age: 59
Posts: 5,705
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
"so why does the 2 bladed helicopter go faster than the one with 3 blades?".
So that would be an R22 and a Schweizer 300? Every model of helicopter goes faster than the Schweizer and that has more to do with its aerodynamic profile (such as it is!).

Cheers

Whirls
Whirlygig is offline  
Old 13th Aug 2008, 17:36
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 1,635
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Smile

How about only one oar in the water?


Single-Bladed Rotor
Dave_Jackson is offline  
Old 13th Aug 2008, 19:42
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Durham, NC USA
Posts: 373
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
# of Blades Vs Ballistic Tolerance

Ballistic tolerance is another consideration when selecting the number of rotor blades. Increasing the number of blades results in selecting reduced blade cord to retain an optimum solidity ratio. Wide cord blades can be made more ballistically tolerant, thus steering the designers to less blades. This was a prime consideration when going with only four main rotor blades on the Blackhawk and the Apache helicopters. Many arguments took place at Sikorsky in the early stages of the Comanche program. The ballistics group fought for a maximum of 4 main rotor blades while the pilots, performance and dynamics people fought for 5 or more. The latter group won out.
Jack Carson is offline  
Old 13th Aug 2008, 20:09
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Up to my axles
Age: 61
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Ballistics Vs Dynamics

Jack,

Good information. So why does the S92 only have 4 blades? The only people sniping at us jockeys are our management!

TD
Tractor_Driver is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.