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Old 12th Nov 2011, 11:18   #201 (permalink)
 
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And then there is this

greatland l@ser

Has anyone experience of this product (either end of the beam!)?
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Old 23rd Nov 2011, 23:56   #202 (permalink)
 
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A bit more than a slap on the wrist

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Old 24th Nov 2011, 14:09   #203 (permalink)
 
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No doubt someone will chip in and say the sentence of 4 years in jail seems harsh,
but I bet the defendant, anyone that knows him, and anyone that becomes aware of this incident,
will think long and hard before doing something similar in the future

Sentences handed down the Courts are there not only to punish the offender,
but also to act as a deterrent to others - something which often seems to be lacking in the UK these days ( IMHO ).

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Old 24th Nov 2011, 17:13   #204 (permalink)
 
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I live in Mexico City, one of the most densely populated areas in the world, and I can tell you that I get one of those new "HIGH POWER" GREEN l@sers POINTED AT ME AT LEAST TWICE A WEEK WHILE FLYING! Those things have become very popular toys. I don't see them as a huge danger, distracting at most.

Call me dumb if you want but actually I think it looks pretty, and have never felt it hurt my eyes in anyway, the beams of those l@sers I'm sure would be hurtful at close range concentrated where the dot is still small, and for a considerable period of time, but at whatever range the helicopter is flying, those l@sers are cheap and the light disperses and what used to be a small dot at few yards is now a 1+ meter light spot, with the corresponding loss of concentration.

Have you ever pointed one of those l@sers at a faraway building? I have one of those, I live on a 10th story apartment and I sometimes point it a building that is exactly 520 meters away, and the dot at that distance looks at least a meter wide, so if the the dot was about 1.5 mm at close range, at that distance calculate the corresponding dilution, it would be huge.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be forbideen, but I think it's extreme to have a teenager jailed for 4 years for doing that, if it were up to me, maybe 6 months max, the judge saying it could have been a tragedy is frankly ridiculous, I would have felt so guilty as a pilot to have a teenager jailed for something that I knew could have never caused a tragedy, if the pilot really thought he was going to be blinded, why did he keep circling around the boy switching back and forth the camera mode? if he really thought that thing was going to bring him down it would have been negligent for him to keep on circling woudn't it?
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Old 24th Nov 2011, 18:01   #205 (permalink)
 
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Blender, what poison are you on?
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Old 24th Nov 2011, 20:41   #206 (permalink)
 
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That seems a sensible sentance if the aim is to act as a deterrent.
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Old 24th Nov 2011, 23:47   #207 (permalink)
 
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BP
Quote:
if the pilot really thought he was going to be blinded, why did he keep circling around the boy switching back and forth the camera mode? if he really thought that thing was going to bring him down it would have been negligent for him to keep on circling woudn't it?
I doubt if the pilot was controlling the camera or looking into the beam.


B.
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Old 28th May 2012, 22:30   #208 (permalink)
 
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It's getting worse:

Canada News: l@ser attacks on pilots are on the rise, records show - thestar.com
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Old 29th Dec 2012, 06:57   #209 (permalink)
 
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Gold Coast Laser Attack on Police Helicopter

From ABC News

Police have charged a 37-year-old man after a l@ser beam was aimed at a commercial airliner and a police helicopter last night.
The suspect was found in the backyard of a house in the northern Gold Coast suburb of Ormeau.
Police allege he aimed a hand-held l@ser at the two aircraft just before 9pm (AEST).
The man has been charged with threatening the safety of people on board an aircraft.
He is due to appear at Southport Magistrates Court next month.
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Old 31st Dec 2012, 07:37   #210 (permalink)
 
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"And then there is this
greatland l@ser
Has anyone experience of this product (either end of the beam!)? "

The Greatland was designed by a pilot for pilots (downed) to signal to pilots(flying) in Alaska.

It is 5mW - enough to be seen as a bright dot in the distance but nowhere near enough to illuminate cockpit or disrupt flying.

Your problem l@sers are 200mW or greater (also usually green since they appear brighter to the human eye). Technically not for sale in the UK but available by post.

Interestingly the US Coast Guard helo rules are, if a l@ser is shone at the pilot, abandon rescue immediately, go back to base, go to hospital for eye check.

(How do I know this ? I have been working on, inventing and selling, emergency l@ser signalling devices for years. I tested a Greatland with a UK SAR helicopter - by mutual consent. No problems.)
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Old 31st Dec 2012, 13:16   #211 (permalink)

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Sounds good Send'em but what are the 'instructions' that go with the signalling l@ser?
Surely if you are looking for someone, the green l@ser beams' source can be seen without pointing it at the ac itself. Maybe for an initial contact, but how do the rescue crew acknowledge the sighting?

Rather than blinding, by ruining the crews night vision literally in a flash, aren't rescue strobe lights a better location aid?

Having been lasered quite a few times, the last thing I'd need while approaching a landing site is a light blooming the screen from someone 'trying to help' illuminate the location for example.

Quote:
It is 5mW - enough to be seen as a bright dot in the distance but nowhere near enough to illuminate cockpit or disrupt flying.

Your problem l@sers are 200mW or greater (also usually green since they appear brighter to the human eye). Technically not for sale in the UK but available by post.
The 'problem l@sers' give the same effect as your rescue l@ser. Distrating, ruining night vision and blooming the screens! This may well not cause any retina damage, but that isn't the only 'problem'.


Laser Pointer Safety - FAQ
Quote:
When does a l@ser pointer get powerful enough to be dangerous?
There is no specific threshold between a "safe" l@ser beam, a potentially hazardous one, and a clearly dangerous beam. The following are some guidelines.

Bright Light Hazard

Even a "legal" (in the U.S.) 5 milliwatt l@ser pointer can be a potential hazard if the light distracts or temporarily flashblinds a person such as a pilot. This is why you NEVER aim a l@ser pointer at an aircraft, or the driver of a vehicle.

Send'em, 2 things.. are you a pilot that has actually experienced being 'lasered'? and have you actually seen your own link?
Quote:
It is 5mW - enough to be seen as a bright dot in the distance but nowhere near enough to illuminate cockpit or disrupt flying.
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Old 31st Dec 2012, 21:45   #212 (permalink)
 
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Somewhere back in the distant past of this thread it was mentioned that the UK CAA have added a new offence to the ANO which made it an offence to shine a light or l@ser or at an aircraft.

It might be sensible for any instructions to mention this to save embarrassment.

Given the trouble that exists with flares (risk of using and difficulties with getting rid of expired ones), the l@ser could be useful.
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Old 2nd Jan 2013, 12:29   #213 (permalink)

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Mmm, guess I'll have to wait a few years before they get answered, in the meantime, I'll assume a negative for both!
http://www.pprune.org/search.php?searchid=896394
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Old 3rd Jan 2013, 11:59   #214 (permalink)
 
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Siloe Sid,

Apologies for the delay. I know pilots get a "knee jerk reaction" when anyone mentions l@sers, so let's me explain a few things.

If you can see the beam (like Jedi Light Sabre) then the l@ser is up in the 200mW range or above. These l@sers will cause you problems and are the ones usually green (because it looks brighter to the human eye) and held by a scrote. They are focused to tight spot.

The Greatland l@ser Flare (Greatland l@ser and note the instructions for use) is significantly different. It is NOT focused to point. If you shine it on a wall it projects a thin line and is about 5mW. This was designed by Jim O'Meara, an Alaskan freight pilot for signalling to aircraft from the ground.

It is legal in the US to shine this l@ser at an aircraft - because it was designed specifically for that purpose. It is not powerful enough to cause eye damage (because it is not tightly focused to a spot) beyond a few feet.
All the pilot perceives when it is shone at a cockpit is a distant bright red light source - there is no interference with vision, night vision, or the ability to fly. The beam is too weak to be visible as line through the sky (unlike the powerful l@sers you are referring to).

There is further variant, the Odeo Flare, which uses 5 l@sers, line focused, in a rotating head. Odeo Flare :: #1 in l@ser Flares
At a distance it is a bright flickering light source. It does not make NVG flare, it does not have visible beams coming out of the head. As with the Greatland, it is only visible if you are looking at it.

I'm trying to keep this short but will happily add more detail.

Last edited by Send'em; 3rd Jan 2013 at 12:01.
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Old 3rd Jan 2013, 12:28   #215 (permalink)

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Quote:
Somewhere back in the distant past of this thread it was mentioned that the UK CAA have added a new offence to the ANO which made it an offence to shine a light or l@ser or at an aircraft.
Relevant info here:

New powers to tackle aircraft l@ser crime introduced | CAA Newsroom | About the CAA
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Old 3rd Jan 2013, 12:35   #216 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
It is not powerful enough to cause eye damage
So you would allow me to shine it straight into your googles, when you are coming in flying a SAR-helo for pickup?



I have seen the outcome of "laser-attacks"-and i know at least one pilot who almost lost his vision on one eye because one of the "small and harmless" l@sers caught him during night low lever flying (in the military) through the NVG..
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Old 3rd Jan 2013, 15:31   #217 (permalink)

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Send'em, I take it from your insult of adjusting my username and not answering my questions that you are neither a pilot nor have you actually watched the video in your own link.

If you knew anything about this, you will realise that it is not necessarily the potential for retinal damage that is the problem, it is the distraction and loss of night vision that are the greater problems. If you would give us the decency to look at your own links' video, you will notice that the device you cream over doesn't show just a spot, but the classic disprutive blinding effect.

You would also read in your link;
Quote:
The GLF031-01 Green Rescue l@ser Flare® is a hand-held day and nighttime l@ser signaling device that provides a convenient, effective way to signal a rescue party. It's waterproof, rugged design combines the safety of a l@ser signaling device with the convenience of a flashlight. Brilliant green light makes it the most visible of the three models and the preferred style of Search and Rescue (SAR) professionals.
...yet you tell us it's not green

You also tell us it focuses to a tight spot, however the video demonstrates a 6,000 fan of light @ 16 miles !

Your link contradicts everything you post, and your posts contradict all that those of us affected by l@sers know from experience.


I especially like your comment in reference to be Odeo flare (which is not dissimilar to the rotating toys available at Disneyland), that it is only visible if you are looking at it ! Is that the same as closing your eyes so that you will become invisible to the Daleks
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Old 3rd Jan 2013, 16:42   #218 (permalink)
 
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SilsoeSid,

My apologies for the name error - no insult intended, just a silly mistake.

The link I gave was for the Red Greatland, which is line focused - as I thought I said.

The point I am trying to make is that high power l@sers, focused to a dot, are very dangerous to pilots. (As we all know). These are usually referred to as "pointers" and will concentrate their power in a small circle at long range. They are often so powerful that the beam is visible as a line from pointer to target.

Low power l@sers, focused to give a line across the "target" are not dangerous and have been deliberately designed to be safe. Since the 5mW is now spread across a long line (perpendicular to the l@ser to observer axis) the amount of power falling on the observer is minimal.

I am not a pilot, I have not been lased in the cockpit but I do lase pilots (with their permission) in product trials to confirm that those l@sers designed as ground to air signalling devices are safe.
But I do stress that I am talking about l@sers developed closely with pilots for safely signalling to aircrew in the air.

This is why some of the l@ser products I designed are now being evaluated in a number of countries and we have been tasked to produce a variant for a country's armed forces (including aircrew).

And referring to another comment - light at 635nm wavelength does not make most makes of NVG "bloom" but light at 555nm (green) can cause NVG to "flare". Varies from model to model.
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Old 3rd Jan 2013, 21:54   #219 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hueyracer
So you would allow me to shine it straight into your googles, when you are coming in flying a SAR-helo for pickup?


YES !
But I am not a pilot. So we could do a simple test but I now realise you are in East Africa.
Nominate a substitute in the UK.
I will wear your NVG and your substitute can shine my l@sers while we stand in a field on a dark night. (So no one can crash).
Then we swap.

I receive the first l@ser "impact" because you think it will be dangerous.
But we will use the l@sers I designed to be safe.

Then we might get you to accept that a l@ser that is designed to be safe and has been developed with pilots and that pilots say is is safe; is actually safe for pilots.
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Old 4th Jan 2013, 17:33   #220 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
through the NVG.
How did that happen as light doesn't pass "through" NVGs?
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