Man dies in gyrocopter crash Nov 2007, Australia
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Man dies in gyrocopter crash Nov 2007, Australia
A crash in Northern Victoria killed one and severely injured another occupant in this morning's Australian newspaper. Both were badly burnt.
Well that will happen wont it when your fuel tank is shaped like a seat, and that is where you sit!
But what is it with gyros anyway? They are mostly pushers, and it it should inadvertantly get into low or negative g, rotor drag disappears, and the roaring engine pushes over into an outside loop. The answer must be to build them as tractors, as Juan de la Cierva did in the 1930s.
I saw one so built at Oshkosh last year with an Australian built radial. Looked great.
thekite
Well that will happen wont it when your fuel tank is shaped like a seat, and that is where you sit!
But what is it with gyros anyway? They are mostly pushers, and it it should inadvertantly get into low or negative g, rotor drag disappears, and the roaring engine pushes over into an outside loop. The answer must be to build them as tractors, as Juan de la Cierva did in the 1930s.
I saw one so built at Oshkosh last year with an Australian built radial. Looked great.
thekite
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The front engined autogyro would probably have been a "Littlewing". Good design, proper undercarriage, horizontal stabiliser giving correct pitch stability.
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theKite, my $0.02 - i've never been in an autogyro.
Pullers would have the same problem if prop was at same height as pushers. But if the pusher was below CG then acceleration will keep machine level. I suspect puller package just ends up below CG for visibility, while pusher is easier to package high.
Actually, i'm still waiting for a hingeless autogyro design. The rotor system weight would probably limit it's performance though. Also too much reduced g and Nr would go down...
Pullers would have the same problem if prop was at same height as pushers. But if the pusher was below CG then acceleration will keep machine level. I suspect puller package just ends up below CG for visibility, while pusher is easier to package high.
Actually, i'm still waiting for a hingeless autogyro design. The rotor system weight would probably limit it's performance though. Also too much reduced g and Nr would go down...
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Accident
The machine in Oz landed short, and apparently hard.
For a gyro, this is highly unusual.
Its hard to get very far from your fuel tank in a gyro.
I dont think this machine featured seat tanks, but see above.
Tractor gyros are inherently far more stable than most pushers,
but pushers can be configured to be stable. VERTICAL position of CG vs
engine thrustline is the critical issue.
But the view from a pusher is something else, trust me.
Think flying motorbike.
The pilot of this machine was a well-known and very experienced
instructor, and we pray for his recovery.
Ironically, the machines name is Firebird.
For a gyro, this is highly unusual.
Its hard to get very far from your fuel tank in a gyro.
I dont think this machine featured seat tanks, but see above.
Tractor gyros are inherently far more stable than most pushers,
but pushers can be configured to be stable. VERTICAL position of CG vs
engine thrustline is the critical issue.
But the view from a pusher is something else, trust me.
Think flying motorbike.
The pilot of this machine was a well-known and very experienced
instructor, and we pray for his recovery.
Ironically, the machines name is Firebird.
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Fergus
I suppose then that we are talking about PB. If so I am sorry to hear it. I met him once at MKT/Darwin, and was impressed by the man.
I never had time to ask him WHY gyros?
To me gyros occupy an uncomfortable middle ground between aeroplane and helis, combining the shortcomings of both, without the advantages of either.
Like the helicopter they are slow and thirsty, like the aeroplane, they are unable to hover.
In the 6 years of the Second World War, warfare went from cavalry to nuclear weapons and aviation science went from biplanes to space flight.
They gyro went nowhere. Except perhaps to lend, in passing, it's rudimentary technology to the fledgling helicopter.
the kite
I never had time to ask him WHY gyros?
To me gyros occupy an uncomfortable middle ground between aeroplane and helis, combining the shortcomings of both, without the advantages of either.
Like the helicopter they are slow and thirsty, like the aeroplane, they are unable to hover.
In the 6 years of the Second World War, warfare went from cavalry to nuclear weapons and aviation science went from biplanes to space flight.
They gyro went nowhere. Except perhaps to lend, in passing, it's rudimentary technology to the fledgling helicopter.
the kite
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Don't be too hard on the autogyro.
They are far cheaper to build and operate and less complicated than helicopters, giving LAMEs' less work to do per flying hour
.
The rotor is always in autorotation, a safe mode for it to be, especially when operating near the ground.
The rotors produce no downwash, good for very low level ops over sensitive surfaces.
Unfortunately, they are still relatively under-developed machines, resulting in poor design, poor pitch stability (how the CAA ever allowed machines with no horizontal stabilisers and therefore no pitch stability is beyond my logic). Unfortunately some "modern" designs use excessively noisy, high revving insufficiently silenced engines and propellors set at too high a thrust line in order to get sufficient propellor tip to ground and airframe clearance.
A "traditional" tail wheel design, using a quiet, slow revving four stroke engine and prop would naturally have good prop tip to ground clearance and a naturally stable thrust line.
I would fly a Littlewing any day. Cierva (whose design it is based on) had it right, in many ways he was ahead of his time.
They are far cheaper to build and operate and less complicated than helicopters, giving LAMEs' less work to do per flying hour
.The rotor is always in autorotation, a safe mode for it to be, especially when operating near the ground.
The rotors produce no downwash, good for very low level ops over sensitive surfaces.
Unfortunately, they are still relatively under-developed machines, resulting in poor design, poor pitch stability (how the CAA ever allowed machines with no horizontal stabilisers and therefore no pitch stability is beyond my logic). Unfortunately some "modern" designs use excessively noisy, high revving insufficiently silenced engines and propellors set at too high a thrust line in order to get sufficient propellor tip to ground and airframe clearance.
A "traditional" tail wheel design, using a quiet, slow revving four stroke engine and prop would naturally have good prop tip to ground clearance and a naturally stable thrust line.
I would fly a Littlewing any day. Cierva (whose design it is based on) had it right, in many ways he was ahead of his time.
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Originally Posted by Graviman
Actually, i'm still waiting for a hingeless autogyro design. The rotor system weight would probably limit it's performance though. Also too much reduced g and Nr would go down...
Juan de la Cierva's original design was a rigid rotor. That ended poorly. On the bright side, he solved the problem with an articulated rotor, which we still use today.
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Mart,
A hingeless rotor would definitely improve the controllability. However, it will mean that the simple Gimbal flight-control system must be replaced by the more complex Swashplate / Spider system.
To elaborate;
A hingeless rotor would definitely improve the controllability. However, it will mean that the simple Gimbal flight-control system must be replaced by the more complex Swashplate / Spider system.
To elaborate;
- ShyTorque has mentioned the lower cost and maintenance.
- I don't think that the swashplate would be allowed in the US Sport Plane / Pilot category.
- Unmentioned, but IMHO, recreational gyrocopter pilots are proud of their competence at flying a 'risky' craft. Few can 'pilot' a unicycle; all can 'pilot' a bicycle.
Last edited by Dave_Jackson; 11th Nov 2007 at 21:07. Reason: grammar & spelling
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Actually, his original design was a model using flexible cane blade spars and feathers. It didn't roll over because the flexibility of the canes allowed flapping.
However, when he translated his design to a full sized aircraft, he was concerned by the amount of blade droop and installed braces on his blades, stopping the flexing of the spars. That was when the aircraft suffered rollover on takeoff.
Whirls, well found, but my harris wouldn't be so much at risk in one of these; it does have a proper method of keeping one's behind off the turf
However, when he translated his design to a full sized aircraft, he was concerned by the amount of blade droop and installed braces on his blades, stopping the flexing of the spars. That was when the aircraft suffered rollover on takeoff.
Whirls, well found, but my harris wouldn't be so much at risk in one of these; it does have a proper method of keeping one's behind off the turf
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Update;
The latest information on Paul Bruty is that his condition is now listed as
'satisfactory'. He is in a medically-induced coma, and will be kept so for
about three weeks.
What can I say about gyros? Lots, but not here. We are a small community
and still feeling sick about this.
'satisfactory'. He is in a medically-induced coma, and will be kept so for
about three weeks.
What can I say about gyros? Lots, but not here. We are a small community
and still feeling sick about this.
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Further update on Paul Bruty;
Lifted from Rotary Forum;
Latest news on Paul's recovery
Paul is improving steadily and they are now starting to talk about taking him out of intensive care and transferring him to the burns ward. That’s a positive step. He has been conscious for quite some time but sleeps a lot due to the pain killers needed when dressings are being done – and there are some dressings every day. He can hear us and respond with a nod or shake of the head but hasn’t been able to speak because of the “trachie” which has been in place since the accident. The type he has now was put in place some weeks ago but we’re hoping that it won’t be long before he’ll be able to do without that.
Latest news on Paul's recovery
Paul is improving steadily and they are now starting to talk about taking him out of intensive care and transferring him to the burns ward. That’s a positive step. He has been conscious for quite some time but sleeps a lot due to the pain killers needed when dressings are being done – and there are some dressings every day. He can hear us and respond with a nod or shake of the head but hasn’t been able to speak because of the “trachie” which has been in place since the accident. The type he has now was put in place some weeks ago but we’re hoping that it won’t be long before he’ll be able to do without that.
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Paul's recovery;
Paul continues to recover steadily. While still continuing physical rehab, he has flown solo again, and is once again contributing to the Rotary Forum.
Rotary Wing Forum
Cheers,
Fergus Kavanagh.
Rotary Wing Forum
Cheers,
Fergus Kavanagh.
