Guimbal Cabri G2
Chief Bottle Washer
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,957
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The machine seems to be getting interesting with 270 kg total load compared to around 246kg in the R22
that would mean that it just may be legal to use in shooting ops with two 75 kg crew, 40 kg rifle and ammunition, five kg tracking gear and maybe 2.5 hours endurance with 15 litres reserve.
certainly the three blades would have to be a smooth platform.
i note that the engine runs at 50 rpm more than in the R22 but the consumption is stated at 34 lts per hour instead of about 36 per hour in the R22 install. Something does not add up there.
does the engine assy use the lightweight (ally inserts) cylinders or were they patented to Franks' inventions only?
If they were all steel and then the ally insert pots put on then it would make a fairly mean machine.
There is only two problems, we would need about 50,000 hours of relatively surprise free hours to prove it and a price reduction of at least 60,000 Euro. I don't think it whorthwhile to wait for the the US dollar to drop more as the price will mean no new machione purchases if the exchange goes to high.
that would mean that it just may be legal to use in shooting ops with two 75 kg crew, 40 kg rifle and ammunition, five kg tracking gear and maybe 2.5 hours endurance with 15 litres reserve.
certainly the three blades would have to be a smooth platform.
i note that the engine runs at 50 rpm more than in the R22 but the consumption is stated at 34 lts per hour instead of about 36 per hour in the R22 install. Something does not add up there.
does the engine assy use the lightweight (ally inserts) cylinders or were they patented to Franks' inventions only?
If they were all steel and then the ally insert pots put on then it would make a fairly mean machine.
There is only two problems, we would need about 50,000 hours of relatively surprise free hours to prove it and a price reduction of at least 60,000 Euro. I don't think it whorthwhile to wait for the the US dollar to drop more as the price will mean no new machione purchases if the exchange goes to high.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: airport
Posts: 343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i note that the engine runs at 50 rpm more than in the R22 but the consumption is stated at 34 lts per hour instead of about 36 per hour in the R22 install. Something does not add up there.
Or maybe that "in-house digital ignition control"?
TET,
Something does add up - Plasma Ignition - explained here. STC it on your 22 and you would possible get similar savings. At least it would be one less mag you have to keep repairing or have they fixed that?
No 2000 hourly inspection, no "finite lifed items" if you read the TCDS.
It does have a luggage space that you can actually use.
More inertia in the MR, so a student might actually learn something in a touchdown auto.
I have read that it flies very much like a 120/350 as you would expect.
As a pilot/engineer for nearly 25 years, and privileged to be flying one like the top one in the leading photograph, comparing the R22 to the Cabri is like comparing a Model T to the current MINI.
Saw an R44 recently with a popout float system installed. The inflation cylinder was under the pilots seat!!! How do they get away with this??
As for the R66, my own thinking is that current certification requirements will delay this aircraft for some time.
There is plenty of room in the current market for this aircraft. Granted it might take a while to have any effect on the US market, but so far it will probably sell because of the R22 not instead of!
In certain areas the foibles of the R22 are accepted because labour is relatively cheap to just keep fixing them. This is not the case in the Euro zone.
Of course one thing you may have to consider is the mods you would have to do so them cows will hear you!
Something does add up - Plasma Ignition - explained here. STC it on your 22 and you would possible get similar savings. At least it would be one less mag you have to keep repairing or have they fixed that?
No 2000 hourly inspection, no "finite lifed items" if you read the TCDS.
It does have a luggage space that you can actually use.
More inertia in the MR, so a student might actually learn something in a touchdown auto.
I have read that it flies very much like a 120/350 as you would expect.
As a pilot/engineer for nearly 25 years, and privileged to be flying one like the top one in the leading photograph, comparing the R22 to the Cabri is like comparing a Model T to the current MINI.
Saw an R44 recently with a popout float system installed. The inflation cylinder was under the pilots seat!!! How do they get away with this??
As for the R66, my own thinking is that current certification requirements will delay this aircraft for some time.
There is plenty of room in the current market for this aircraft. Granted it might take a while to have any effect on the US market, but so far it will probably sell because of the R22 not instead of!
In certain areas the foibles of the R22 are accepted because labour is relatively cheap to just keep fixing them. This is not the case in the Euro zone.
Of course one thing you may have to consider is the mods you would have to do so them cows will hear you!
What is the market for this ship - training, general use or a mix? Frank designed the r22 as a commuter but it quickly established itself as THE trainer. The R44 is the worlds biggest selling rotorcraft and is a general use commuter/utility ship.
The cabri will be a great trainer if it can be comparable to the r22 in DOC. If it lacks lifed components, why is apparently so expensive to fly? Being faster and having luggage space does not make it any better for training. Having two seats makes it useless for pretty much everything the r44, the world's biggest selling helicopter, does.
So I think this is a beautiful, technically excellent ship but it won't succeed unless it can be operated about as economically as the r22.
The cabri will be a great trainer if it can be comparable to the r22 in DOC. If it lacks lifed components, why is apparently so expensive to fly? Being faster and having luggage space does not make it any better for training. Having two seats makes it useless for pretty much everything the r44, the world's biggest selling helicopter, does.
So I think this is a beautiful, technically excellent ship but it won't succeed unless it can be operated about as economically as the r22.
krypton john,
If you are comparing the Cabri to the R22, I imagine that the Cabri is significantly quieter than the R22. (Has anyone actually seen or heard a Cabri in flight to confirm this?) This will be very appealing to certain markets where noise issues are high on the agenda.
If you are comparing it to the R44, the only thing that it really loses out is the 2 extra seats. However, especially for private owners, how many times are those 4 seats actually filled with people? Lots of R44 owners just need the space for baggage, something that the Cabri caters for elsewhere.
I don't even think that the fact that it is priced nearer an R44 will be an issue either - there's a market for both. Let's take the car market as an analogy - there are plenty of 5 seat saloons (Mondeos, Mercs etc) that are the same price as smaller, higher-tech, 2 seater sports cars (Boxters, S2000s etc). They might sell more Mondeos, but they still sell plenty of Boxters...
If you are comparing the Cabri to the R22, I imagine that the Cabri is significantly quieter than the R22. (Has anyone actually seen or heard a Cabri in flight to confirm this?) This will be very appealing to certain markets where noise issues are high on the agenda.
If you are comparing it to the R44, the only thing that it really loses out is the 2 extra seats. However, especially for private owners, how many times are those 4 seats actually filled with people? Lots of R44 owners just need the space for baggage, something that the Cabri caters for elsewhere.
I don't even think that the fact that it is priced nearer an R44 will be an issue either - there's a market for both. Let's take the car market as an analogy - there are plenty of 5 seat saloons (Mondeos, Mercs etc) that are the same price as smaller, higher-tech, 2 seater sports cars (Boxters, S2000s etc). They might sell more Mondeos, but they still sell plenty of Boxters...
Last edited by Bravo73; 29th Sep 2008 at 11:23.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,957
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No i haven't had a chance to check the maintenance schedules, will do sometime soon. what is the maintenance procedures also, can things be fixed up locally after a company "in school", or is it going to be forever - remove component - return to Frank, err sorry FRannnsss.
Noise is becoming less of an issue for cattle work, in fact a bit less of it is often a good idea. Low stress all that sort of thing.
A photograph that I saw somewhere from underneath, spooks me a bit, when I think of the engine compartment heating probs that some other close cowled types have. We are talking 35 degrees C plus for the duration until next Easter right now, right here.
it does appear to be more of a competitor to the CBi rather than the R22.
The thing about lots of umlimited 'life' in the way of component time (as with the CBi) is that the insurance cost escalates dramatically while all this stuff is swinging around your head in pristine nick rather than deteriorating at $90 per hour. Any less than 600 hours per year and the CBi becomes very expensive to insure.
It can be a simple formulae, 80% of 20% or 100% of 5/5ths, who knows, a bit late tonite for me to calculate.
but I tell you, electronic ignition sure has my attention, as does some decent fuel injection. (been wanting to do that to a G5 for a long time)
Noise is becoming less of an issue for cattle work, in fact a bit less of it is often a good idea. Low stress all that sort of thing.
A photograph that I saw somewhere from underneath, spooks me a bit, when I think of the engine compartment heating probs that some other close cowled types have. We are talking 35 degrees C plus for the duration until next Easter right now, right here.
it does appear to be more of a competitor to the CBi rather than the R22.
The thing about lots of umlimited 'life' in the way of component time (as with the CBi) is that the insurance cost escalates dramatically while all this stuff is swinging around your head in pristine nick rather than deteriorating at $90 per hour. Any less than 600 hours per year and the CBi becomes very expensive to insure.
It can be a simple formulae, 80% of 20% or 100% of 5/5ths, who knows, a bit late tonite for me to calculate.
but I tell you, electronic ignition sure has my attention, as does some decent fuel injection. (been wanting to do that to a G5 for a long time)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 392
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I hope the Cabri is a success and spawns further developments. But, of course, this would take many years.
There is, as yet, no perfect 'light' helicopter. All the options have their compromises.
There is, as yet, no perfect 'light' helicopter. All the options have their compromises.
FLY 7,
This is the spawn. Bruno is responsible for a lot of design on the 120 and the 155.
Robinsons are like Topsy, kinda just growed.
This is the spawn. Bruno is responsible for a lot of design on the 120 and the 155.
Robinsons are like Topsy, kinda just growed.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Downwind
Posts: 348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Brandtzag,
You're going to be inundated there.
I'd suggest you send it to Paco, who can arrange for it to be viewed via his publisher's website.
Phil,
Hope you don't mind, you've gone and done a good job and more work is all the thanks you get!
You're going to be inundated there.
I'd suggest you send it to Paco, who can arrange for it to be viewed via his publisher's website.
Phil,
Hope you don't mind, you've gone and done a good job and more work is all the thanks you get!
Join Date: May 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Price & cost
Note that iXair price for the Cabri is 320 euro with flight instructor, while their R22 is at 400-450 euros per hour. Prices could go down with smaller companies. Cabri's operating cost should be less than R22's since she has no life limited parts, whereas you have to throw the R22 away after 2200 hours...
Balancing The Cabri
I have just come back from looking very closely at the Cabri on show in Paris, and noticed the absence of trim tabs on the main rotor blades.
Anyone know how they track the blades for flying high or low with increased speed (I know pitch rods are adjustable before you point out the obvious)
PEASACAKE
Anyone know how they track the blades for flying high or low with increased speed (I know pitch rods are adjustable before you point out the obvious)
PEASACAKE
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well I for one thing think it is great to see a new helicopter type.
It is easy to sit there and say it should be this and that, but I cannot imagine the cost, blood, sweat and tears that most go into making even the smallest and most simple of helicopters and then deal with the civil aviation regulators to get it type certifed.
Good on you Bruno for giving us a new choice in that maket.
I hope all goes well with it.
So when will we see one in Australia.
Now where can I get the money for one, any ideas?
It is easy to sit there and say it should be this and that, but I cannot imagine the cost, blood, sweat and tears that most go into making even the smallest and most simple of helicopters and then deal with the civil aviation regulators to get it type certifed.
Good on you Bruno for giving us a new choice in that maket.
I hope all goes well with it.
So when will we see one in Australia.
Now where can I get the money for one, any ideas?
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Denmark
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Since IXAIR put down an order for the first 10 and Eurocopter for the next 5 after that, its unlikely anyone else will own one until sometime in 2010. That is unless Guimbal manage to ramp up production somehow.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: US
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not sure if this has been posted, but I just came across it.
YouTube - Guimbal Cabri G2 at GIFAS centennial anniversary (2)
Monk
YouTube - Guimbal Cabri G2 at GIFAS centennial anniversary (2)
Monk
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: US
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
