Should We Wear Helmets
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crash hat!!
Its a no brainer....
If you dont wear a flight helmet...wear the consequences.... and that might only be once in 5000 or 10,000 hours but it can happen...
cg
If you dont wear a flight helmet...wear the consequences.... and that might only be once in 5000 or 10,000 hours but it can happen...
cg
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It is an image problem...
Well, that was the answer I got when I asked if we might move forward to even think about some safety gear for flying fixed-wing in light aircraft.
There I was thinking of some sort of light helmet such as that one that David Clark does and perhaps even a suit made of something that would not melt and stick to you like some particularly nasty glue if you had a post-crash fire. You can get one in pretty colours that wouldn't look as if the Marines had landed, when your average passenger probably wouldn't even know that it was a safety item. Gloves would be a good idea too, but I didn't even ask about that!
Way back when the safety bods said that something like 75% of the fatalities in motorcycle accidents were down to head injuries, so that we ended up with compulsory helmets. I used to go about with just sunglasses, jeans and an optimistic outlook on life, but I was 17 then. Now that I am 59 I wear a helmet, a leather suit, leather gloves and high boots for motorcycling. The last time I fell off I just got up, swore a bit at my clumsiness and walked away. The first time I ripped both knees out of my jeans and bled like a stuck pig. At least I was wearing a helmet, otherwise I would probably have been knocked cold with a concussion.
When I started wearing a leather suit for biking in the States I would get lip from the hardasses for looking like a weirdo and, even worse, the faggots in Washington would sometimes take me for some sort of "leather boy." I just ignored the lot of them.
Of course the fatality numbers for car crashes are the same, but who would force the average motorist to wear a helmet? Same story for bicycling, when I wear a helmet and look like a wally, especially when I forget to take it off while shopping! "Image problems," I guess.
At least in motoring we have got far enough to use good crash safety as a sales plus. In aviation we are still in the Dark Ages, often pretending that sh*t just doesn't happen. In fixed-wing the option of wearing a helmet generally is not available. Crop-dusting, yes, but not when carrying pax.
There I was thinking of some sort of light helmet such as that one that David Clark does and perhaps even a suit made of something that would not melt and stick to you like some particularly nasty glue if you had a post-crash fire. You can get one in pretty colours that wouldn't look as if the Marines had landed, when your average passenger probably wouldn't even know that it was a safety item. Gloves would be a good idea too, but I didn't even ask about that!
Way back when the safety bods said that something like 75% of the fatalities in motorcycle accidents were down to head injuries, so that we ended up with compulsory helmets. I used to go about with just sunglasses, jeans and an optimistic outlook on life, but I was 17 then. Now that I am 59 I wear a helmet, a leather suit, leather gloves and high boots for motorcycling. The last time I fell off I just got up, swore a bit at my clumsiness and walked away. The first time I ripped both knees out of my jeans and bled like a stuck pig. At least I was wearing a helmet, otherwise I would probably have been knocked cold with a concussion.
When I started wearing a leather suit for biking in the States I would get lip from the hardasses for looking like a weirdo and, even worse, the faggots in Washington would sometimes take me for some sort of "leather boy." I just ignored the lot of them.
Of course the fatality numbers for car crashes are the same, but who would force the average motorist to wear a helmet? Same story for bicycling, when I wear a helmet and look like a wally, especially when I forget to take it off while shopping! "Image problems," I guess.
At least in motoring we have got far enough to use good crash safety as a sales plus. In aviation we are still in the Dark Ages, often pretending that sh*t just doesn't happen. In fixed-wing the option of wearing a helmet generally is not available. Crop-dusting, yes, but not when carrying pax.
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And culture change
Chuks, thanks for sharing your leather fetish with us - always best to get it out in the open ....
The Australians readily renounce their hard-nose convict image to implement their safety policies - "slip, slap, slop" skin cancer prevention, cycle helmets for all ..... one just hopes that after a few years of this, the resulting generation will be nancy enough to allow other nations to beat them at major sporting activities.
Try telling an Asian on his moped with wife, mother-in-law, two kids and a chicken that he cannot ride at drive at full whack the opposite way in the fast lane of a dual carriage way (mind you, at least he's on the edge) at night with his headlights on full beam. It's worth the loss of a few hundred each year just to maintain this tradition and freedom of choice ......
The Australians readily renounce their hard-nose convict image to implement their safety policies - "slip, slap, slop" skin cancer prevention, cycle helmets for all ..... one just hopes that after a few years of this, the resulting generation will be nancy enough to allow other nations to beat them at major sporting activities.
Try telling an Asian on his moped with wife, mother-in-law, two kids and a chicken that he cannot ride at drive at full whack the opposite way in the fast lane of a dual carriage way (mind you, at least he's on the edge) at night with his headlights on full beam. It's worth the loss of a few hundred each year just to maintain this tradition and freedom of choice ......
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Try Africans....
They can make Asians look safety-conscious when it comes to riding styles, I find. I used to make it back from Tu Do Street after-hours on a little Honda 50 driven by a genuine Saigon Cowboy and think nothing of that but that was then and this is now. For lots of folks it is still "then," I guess.
To get back to the direct point here, it is a bit of a conundrum to figure out how to get the passengers to appreciate the amount of risk present in some sorts of aviation without scaring them away. Well, in many cases it is either fly, swim or walk, when flying is the best, safest option.
The problem I always have come up against is that management just do not want to move forward in using PPE (Personal Protective Equipment). It always seems to take legislation to make that happen.
I remember one madman I used to work for who thought I was being really precious to wear a headset in his DC-3. It must have been 120 decibels in there during take-off, when he found that shouting and gesticulating was really the way to go. I could hear him perfectly well wearing my headset, he was shouting so loud over the racket in there.
The two main arguments seem to be cost and image. Even if one is willing to buy one's own PPE, so no cost problem, then image, frightening the pax, comes into it. The idea that the pax do one trip when you do ten is a good counter-argument but you would still need management willing to first think seriously about PPE.
It must be a bit weird to come out of the military, having worn some of the best PPE on the market, to then start flying the same equipment dressed in a short-sleeved shirt, polyester slacks and low-quarter shoes. I know at least two guys who were turned into crispy critters that way.
Given that there is no gain in this, usually, for the pax, I guess there is no groundswell towards legislating the use of PPE. About the only argument would be that the crew still conscious could evacuate pax post-crash where if they were knocked cold they would be no use at all. That you have to wear a helmet riding a bicycle or a motorbike but not a car, an airplane or a helicopter is a bit nonsensical, but there you are.
To get back to the direct point here, it is a bit of a conundrum to figure out how to get the passengers to appreciate the amount of risk present in some sorts of aviation without scaring them away. Well, in many cases it is either fly, swim or walk, when flying is the best, safest option.
The problem I always have come up against is that management just do not want to move forward in using PPE (Personal Protective Equipment). It always seems to take legislation to make that happen.
I remember one madman I used to work for who thought I was being really precious to wear a headset in his DC-3. It must have been 120 decibels in there during take-off, when he found that shouting and gesticulating was really the way to go. I could hear him perfectly well wearing my headset, he was shouting so loud over the racket in there.
The two main arguments seem to be cost and image. Even if one is willing to buy one's own PPE, so no cost problem, then image, frightening the pax, comes into it. The idea that the pax do one trip when you do ten is a good counter-argument but you would still need management willing to first think seriously about PPE.
It must be a bit weird to come out of the military, having worn some of the best PPE on the market, to then start flying the same equipment dressed in a short-sleeved shirt, polyester slacks and low-quarter shoes. I know at least two guys who were turned into crispy critters that way.
Given that there is no gain in this, usually, for the pax, I guess there is no groundswell towards legislating the use of PPE. About the only argument would be that the crew still conscious could evacuate pax post-crash where if they were knocked cold they would be no use at all. That you have to wear a helmet riding a bicycle or a motorbike but not a car, an airplane or a helicopter is a bit nonsensical, but there you are.
I don't wear one but advocate personal preference here.
For military ops the helment forms part of the uniform and is worn irrespective.
For civilian twin-ops corporate, offshore, RPT etc work I see little need for a helment. Not that it's a consideration for me as the pilot, but if the passengers see the pilots wearing helmets...let's just say it doesn't auger well and the management probably has an opinion about that.
For S/E ops, particularly any external load or mountainous/jungle terrain work, then wearing of the helmet is a wise option. There have been many times on S/E jobs that I've thought I should be wearing a helmet but haven't, but not so many when flying a twin.
Fortunately, in all instances I've never had to call on the benefit of wearing one.
For military ops the helment forms part of the uniform and is worn irrespective.
For civilian twin-ops corporate, offshore, RPT etc work I see little need for a helment. Not that it's a consideration for me as the pilot, but if the passengers see the pilots wearing helmets...let's just say it doesn't auger well and the management probably has an opinion about that.
For S/E ops, particularly any external load or mountainous/jungle terrain work, then wearing of the helmet is a wise option. There have been many times on S/E jobs that I've thought I should be wearing a helmet but haven't, but not so many when flying a twin.
Fortunately, in all instances I've never had to call on the benefit of wearing one.
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Still looking for a helmet that has better soundproofing than my regular Peltor headset, tried Gallet(crappy) and Alpha Eagle(ok, but not better than my headset). Wish the manufacturers would put some more effort into the hearing protection..
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"Still looking for a helmet that has better soundproofing than my regular Peltor headset, tried Gallet(crappy) and Alpha Eagle(ok, but not better than my headset). Wish the manufacturers would put some more effort into the hearing protection.."
Have you tried CEPs? I reccomend them 100% and everyone that I know that uses them does too.
http://www.cep-usa.com/
Everyone I know that uses them has either a HGU or SPH helmet, though I don't see why they couldn't be put into any helmet or headset. The website says they have kits for Alpha and Gallet helmets already.
-Mike
Have you tried CEPs? I reccomend them 100% and everyone that I know that uses them does too.
http://www.cep-usa.com/
Everyone I know that uses them has either a HGU or SPH helmet, though I don't see why they couldn't be put into any helmet or headset. The website says they have kits for Alpha and Gallet helmets already.
-Mike
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gullibell tapped gently away thus: " For military ops the helment forms part of the uniform."
Rubbish. Uniform is not worn in flight, issued safety equipment is.
"For civilian twin-ops corporate, offshore, RPT etc work I see little need for a helment. Not that it's a consideration for me as the pilot, but if the passengers see the pilots wearing helmets...let's just say it doesn't auger well and the management probably has an opinion about that."
The pilot will be in that environment for far longer than a passenger.
"For S/E ops, particularly any external load or mountainous/jungle terrain work, then wearing of the helmet is a wise option. There have been many times on S/E jobs that I've thought I should be wearing a helmet but haven't, but not so many when flying a twin.
Fortunately, in all instances I've never had to call on the benefit of wearing one."
Let me see..............now where is that AIB report referring to a 'twin' normally engaged on corporate work and the pilot of which sustained serious head injuries recently? [fatal]...........I thought I had the reference somewhere.....damn.
Best Wishes
Rubbish. Uniform is not worn in flight, issued safety equipment is.
"For civilian twin-ops corporate, offshore, RPT etc work I see little need for a helment. Not that it's a consideration for me as the pilot, but if the passengers see the pilots wearing helmets...let's just say it doesn't auger well and the management probably has an opinion about that."
The pilot will be in that environment for far longer than a passenger.
"For S/E ops, particularly any external load or mountainous/jungle terrain work, then wearing of the helmet is a wise option. There have been many times on S/E jobs that I've thought I should be wearing a helmet but haven't, but not so many when flying a twin.
Fortunately, in all instances I've never had to call on the benefit of wearing one."
Let me see..............now where is that AIB report referring to a 'twin' normally engaged on corporate work and the pilot of which sustained serious head injuries recently? [fatal]...........I thought I had the reference somewhere.....damn.
Best Wishes
Thanks psyan, but my comments are based on experience. 6 years in the military, the helmet is easily classified as part of a uniform (perhaps the Gentex SPH-4 swore me off wearing a helmet ever again). 7 years flying twin-offshore, fleet averaged 6000+ hours per year, no-one wore a helmet. 1 year flying corporate VIP/RPT, fleet averaged 5000+ hours a year, no-one wore a helmet. 2 years flying twin-EMS, fleet averaged 1500 hours per year, about 3/4's wore a helmet. Lost count how many years flying S/E, suppose less than half wore helmets.
So in summary. Perhaps I've worked with several hundred civilian pilots in various operations around the world. I'd guess about 5% of them wore helmets, the others didn't. So if the 95% of these many hundreds of pilots, represententing many hundreds of thousands of flight hours experience in total, see little need to wear a helmet for their particular operation, well, that speaks volumes to me. Excluding mil-ops, I haven't worked anywhere where the wearing of a helmet was mandatory.
And I think I read somewhere also, the unfortunate BlackHawk pilot who drowned in the regretable accident off Fiji last year was trapped underwater when his helmet became entangled in some debris. But still, I agree, in a prang I'd much rather be wearing one than not.
Wear a helment if you wish, don't wear one if you don't want to. Just take it easy on us guys who speak from experience to benefit the forum.
Best wishes.
So in summary. Perhaps I've worked with several hundred civilian pilots in various operations around the world. I'd guess about 5% of them wore helmets, the others didn't. So if the 95% of these many hundreds of pilots, represententing many hundreds of thousands of flight hours experience in total, see little need to wear a helmet for their particular operation, well, that speaks volumes to me. Excluding mil-ops, I haven't worked anywhere where the wearing of a helmet was mandatory.
And I think I read somewhere also, the unfortunate BlackHawk pilot who drowned in the regretable accident off Fiji last year was trapped underwater when his helmet became entangled in some debris. But still, I agree, in a prang I'd much rather be wearing one than not.
Wear a helment if you wish, don't wear one if you don't want to. Just take it easy on us guys who speak from experience to benefit the forum.
Best wishes.
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gulliBell - I agree that it is indeed a personal preference and for many [given the hours they might expect to fly] probably not worth while statistically. But it is a similar scenario to car seat belts [before legislation]. In 1974 I was in a major motorway pile up and guess what? I was wearing a belt. 6 others involved were not and 3 died. I wear one all the time, every time.
In my early years flying in the far east I hated wearing a helmet and the continuous dribble of sweat in the humidity just p****** me off. One day I got into the aircraft for a ground run without it on. I now have the scar where once there were 7 stitches in my scalp, through my own stupidity. So I similarly wear one all the time now. All it takes is just one incident on the ground or otherwise and that is it for most. For the sake of wearing it it just aint worth the potential price.
And with over 33 years of experience in aviation, I request you accord me the same that you desire of me. I offer my experience for the benefit of others.
However, as you point out, it is personal preference. I just prefer to urge others to not take the chance.
Best Wishes
Psy
In my early years flying in the far east I hated wearing a helmet and the continuous dribble of sweat in the humidity just p****** me off. One day I got into the aircraft for a ground run without it on. I now have the scar where once there were 7 stitches in my scalp, through my own stupidity. So I similarly wear one all the time now. All it takes is just one incident on the ground or otherwise and that is it for most. For the sake of wearing it it just aint worth the potential price.
And with over 33 years of experience in aviation, I request you accord me the same that you desire of me. I offer my experience for the benefit of others.
However, as you point out, it is personal preference. I just prefer to urge others to not take the chance.
Best Wishes
Psy
Still cant understand the cost differential between a good mid priced car\bike helmet and a helio product.
Anyhow here are a some links to to help, bring some light.
A really good overview of the SPH series
http://reviews.ebay.com/SPH-Helicopt...00000002054827
A helmet I have not heard of but is used they say by G-EHMS
http://www.comunicator.co.uk/handbooks/datasheets.htm
The new carbon race suits appear, better than most of the older type of flame proof suits, but you could sweat more.
http://www.chapmaninnovations.com/products/carbonx.php
Here is a link to a cool suit.
http://www.fastraceproducts.com/page.../CTGY/coolsuit
Anyhow here are a some links to to help, bring some light.
A really good overview of the SPH series
http://reviews.ebay.com/SPH-Helicopt...00000002054827
A helmet I have not heard of but is used they say by G-EHMS
http://www.comunicator.co.uk/handbooks/datasheets.htm
The new carbon race suits appear, better than most of the older type of flame proof suits, but you could sweat more.
http://www.chapmaninnovations.com/products/carbonx.php
Here is a link to a cool suit.
http://www.fastraceproducts.com/page.../CTGY/coolsuit
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Didn't want to start a new thread, so apologies for the bump:
On the subject of offshore flying - what SE is mandatory for the crew to wear?
I know for military flying a goon suit is required when the sea temp. is below 15 degrees (10 degrees for the crabs I think), in addition to the aircrew helmet and fireproof coveralls. Wearing of thermals underneath is also recommended.
I know that it's not military flying, but the environment you're flying over remains the same, irrespective of the colours you wear, and is not known for being hospitable.
I'm not being critical of those flying the rig routes, just wondering why there exists this different outlook on SE.
On the subject of offshore flying - what SE is mandatory for the crew to wear?
I know for military flying a goon suit is required when the sea temp. is below 15 degrees (10 degrees for the crabs I think), in addition to the aircrew helmet and fireproof coveralls. Wearing of thermals underneath is also recommended.
I know that it's not military flying, but the environment you're flying over remains the same, irrespective of the colours you wear, and is not known for being hospitable.
I'm not being critical of those flying the rig routes, just wondering why there exists this different outlook on SE.
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Don't know if all three operators have the same operations manual.
The one I know says that for any flight to/from helidecks you always need (in addition to the aircraft equipment)
to wear lifejackets.
Survival suits are mandatory only when sea temperature is below 10°C or at night or surface wind speed > 35 kts.
The one I know says that for any flight to/from helidecks you always need (in addition to the aircraft equipment)
to wear lifejackets.
Survival suits are mandatory only when sea temperature is below 10°C or at night or surface wind speed > 35 kts.
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I spent 6 weeks in NZ (Dec 06) flying in the mountains with Helipro, every single instructor and depot pilot wore a helmet. Alot of the students wore helmets. I would have bought one whilst I was there but money was tight and it was an extra hour flying. When I return I will most definatley be getting one. They were using the R22 and the Hughes 300 nobody judged anyone, though the guy with the Pink stripe on his concerned me slightly. Good Luck with your flying
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FredFri wibbled: The one I know says that for any flight to/from helidecks you always need (in addition to the aircraft equipment)
to wear lifejackets. Survival suits are mandatory only when sea temperature is below 10°C or at night or surface wind speed > 35 kts."
Yeh right. In my book, wear a life jacket over water if you are too far to auto to a safe landing point [dry] and wear a goon suit with under insulation anywhere in Europe or vicinity irrespective of the sea temp, day or night. Try spending 2 days in a dinghy in the north sea in summer and you will see what I mean. Hell don't take my word for it, go talk to the sailors who end up in the drink without. [No I didn't ditch.......training.............which went slightly awry.]
Best Wishes
to wear lifejackets. Survival suits are mandatory only when sea temperature is below 10°C or at night or surface wind speed > 35 kts."
Yeh right. In my book, wear a life jacket over water if you are too far to auto to a safe landing point [dry] and wear a goon suit with under insulation anywhere in Europe or vicinity irrespective of the sea temp, day or night. Try spending 2 days in a dinghy in the north sea in summer and you will see what I mean. Hell don't take my word for it, go talk to the sailors who end up in the drink without. [No I didn't ditch.......training.............which went slightly awry.
]Best Wishes
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Just found this thread, it's very interesting, so is the general thinking that even in an R22 and even if everyone else thinks you look a prat, a helmet should be worn.......even whilst training?
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Knievel
No-one can tell you that you should wear a helmet when flying privately or during training, that has to be your choice. The safety benefits are well documented and the other pro's & con's have been well discussed here too.
"even in an R22?" - especially in an R22!
"even whilst training?" - why not... a crash is still a crash whatever you're doing.
"even if everyone else thinks you look a prat?" - who cares! In my experience no-one else really cares what you wear.
Mil, Police, SAR & HEMS all wear them, do they look like prats?
PR
No-one can tell you that you should wear a helmet when flying privately or during training, that has to be your choice. The safety benefits are well documented and the other pro's & con's have been well discussed here too.
"even in an R22?" - especially in an R22!
"even whilst training?" - why not... a crash is still a crash whatever you're doing.
"even if everyone else thinks you look a prat?" - who cares! In my experience no-one else really cares what you wear.
Mil, Police, SAR & HEMS all wear them, do they look like prats?
PR
How about "especially while training"?
I wore a helmet in the mil and I wear one in the air, even (or especially) in the Robbie. Does it look ridiculous to others? Perhaps. But I find it to be hugely comfortable and - as I wear corrective lenses - having the smoked shield to pull down when needed goes a long way toward extending my day. Add CEP and life is just about perfect.
When I was training with Bristow in Florida, the lid was a good sweat absorber. Oddly enough, when I transferred to Bristow California, I was forbidden from wearing my lid because the staff was afraid that an emergent situation would find my helmeted head coming in contact with the un-helmeted head of the CFI. I found the argument slightly flawed and was never comfortable in just a headset.
If anyone stateside needs an SPH4B in great condition, including a new Zeta liner and comfy earcup muffs and sweat covers, feel free to PM me.
I wore a helmet in the mil and I wear one in the air, even (or especially) in the Robbie. Does it look ridiculous to others? Perhaps. But I find it to be hugely comfortable and - as I wear corrective lenses - having the smoked shield to pull down when needed goes a long way toward extending my day. Add CEP and life is just about perfect.
When I was training with Bristow in Florida, the lid was a good sweat absorber. Oddly enough, when I transferred to Bristow California, I was forbidden from wearing my lid because the staff was afraid that an emergent situation would find my helmeted head coming in contact with the un-helmeted head of the CFI. I found the argument slightly flawed and was never comfortable in just a headset.
If anyone stateside needs an SPH4B in great condition, including a new Zeta liner and comfy earcup muffs and sweat covers, feel free to PM me.
