2's forward 1's back

I seem to recall the mountain flying was canned due to bad weather, I might be wrong. JD did have a SEF, DS took a replacement out to the set, only for JD to pull the old " I've got to get back to Wallop" card and left DS to fend for himself. My claim to fame is I had a sim slot that morning otherwise I'd have been on the vid near the buttie van with DS.

Steve Davies

Sorry to ask such a morbid question here, but I was recently sent a link to an internet site with some rather gruesome pictures on it and I wondered of anyone had some background?

I won't post the link itself, but the images essentially show an individual who has come into contact with the MR blades of a RN Lynx on the fantail of a ship.

I wanted to know if there is an official explanation for the incident? It strikes me that this chap must have had to have been remarkably unlucky to have fallen victim to rotorstrike like this.

Does anyone know the background?

RIP the poor chap

Straight Up

Are sure it was an RN Lynx?

I saw a set of 5 (3 of them pretty horrible, very graphic) pictures recently that sound similar, only these were of a US Seahawk (H-60), could they be the same ones? The time in the bottom right of the picture was around 9:44am.

It could be that a gust of wind caused a blade to flap during shutdown/startup (without the droop stops in), and he was unfortunate enough to be under the disk.

It's one answer to the question "Why do people duck when going to/from helicopters" that people seem to ask me.

Somebody where I work didn't believe that the rotors could go that low at the front, then I showed her the great bit of video of the helo (CH-53?) chopping it's own refueling probe off while chasing the drogue.

Steve Davies

Straight up,

I believe that you are correct - it probably was an SH-60. To be honest, I don't really want to check as I don't have the stomach for it.

Assuming that it was a gust of wind, would it be SOP for anyone to be underneath them until they had come to a stop? I ask because common sense would say 'no', but I don't know if the tight confines of the ship's fantail means that some rules must be bent. Additionally, when I was doing my PPL(H), my IPs often exited the aircraft with the rotors running to leave me to shut down.

One thing is for sure, these images will certainly make me get down extra-low next time I approach a rotors-running heli.

sycamore

I think it may be a bit difficult to get really serious blade-sailing on a Lynx as it has a rigid -rotor and doesn`t have droop -stops( correct me if I`m wrong as its 30 yrs since I last flew one). Usually on landing on a ship, the engines/rotors would not be shut-down until the a/c is secured and the deck crew have cleared from the disc, and reverse on start-up.Only other way to hit someone would be to waggle the stick about- again a no-no.
There used to be a photo of a Whirlwind /S-55 starting/shutting-down on deck in heavy weather which showed a rotor blade touching the deck!!--- Some-one must have a photo?
Not something to be taken for granted/casually!

oldpinger

It was a SH60 on an US Warship and blade sail is apparently a well known danger in that fraternity.

They are V graphic and come from an even worse web site, who obviously have no regard for the people involved or their families, the sort of sick F...s who get their kicks out of putting this stuff on the net rank along with those who go looking for small children in chatrooms

I got forwarded these by some 'friend'

ps heard of seaking blades hitting the deck infront of the aircraft once

Heliport

Someone posted a link here a while back to a website which carried pictures of the tragedy.
I made the mistake of following the link which was to a perverts website, and showed close-ups of the blood, gore and bits of head spattered over the deck.
The pictures of what was left of the poor man, apparently stolen from official sources, were surrounded by cartoons of homosexuals doing what homosexuals do (allegedly) and 'homosexual lonely hearts' type ads inviting you to join them.
The site-owners proudly declared they were the best pics they'd ever got hold of!
I haven't been back to see if they've now beaten their own record.
Sick or what!

Steve Davies

Heliport/Oldpinger,

Yes it was quite vile and I certainly would not forward the link to any of my friends. I don't like the way in which these sites operate, but I am in two minds as to how to feel about them.

I certainly think that it is unforgivable to post images that have been 'borrowed' from official sources, but at the same time I am actually glad that I saw these particular pictures. I know that the vast majority of people will just be there to gawp and I feel for the familly of this chap (who probably have no power to do anything about it). But, as a PPL(H), it has really given me a healthy respect for properly ducking and maintaining proper clearance. The pictures made me feel nauseous and I know that each time I approach a rotors-running helicopter I'll see them in my mind again. They brought a few realities home to me... I'm just sorry it was at the expense of the diginity of someone who's no longer with us.

Sycamore,

Thanks for the info on ship-board Ops.

B Sousa

B Sousa, although I appreciate you are trying to help out ... the link posted is unacceptable to PPRuNe.

LordGrumpy

Any one who would put up a strange site link, needs an experiance of reality.
So keep Rotorheads.
Informative, truthfull and ban distasteful.


This is a calender job, sober after 2100hrs. Disgraceful. William Shakespeare is still relevant, how long will you be known?

Heliport

A link to these pictures has been deleted.
Links will not be permitted.
I know the arguments raised by some people on the last occasion that they are no worse than those used in military safety seminars etc etc.
The pictures have been improperly obtained from military sources and posted on websites run by and for sick perverts.
If anyone can show me a link to the pictures on a legitimate aviation safety site, I'll reconsider - but don't assume I'll necessarily change my mind.
As the regulars know, censorship is only very exceptionally necessary on this forum - because people use their own good sense. This is just such an exception and, subject to what I've said above, the decision is final.

Heliport

PedalStop

In my opinion, the use of such photos, even in safety lectures, is of dubious value, in poor taste, and harmful to the memory and loved ones of the victims. I fully support Heliport's actions. Please Rotorheads, lets work to keep the content in good public taste, informative and helpful.
PedalStop

Steve Davies

I would just like to point out that I started this thread with a legitimate question regarding safety. I deliberately did not link the site in order to avoid causing offence. I do hope that PPRUNE is not suggesting that asking a valid question like this is somehow 'distasteful'.

PPRuNe Radar

Steve Davies

All the Moderator comments have been talking about links

If we'd found the topic distasteful then I don't think the thread would still be here.

Accidents can teach us all something, and help to improve Air Safety. Therefore raising an issue on that subject matter will always be welcomed. Our only problem is with links to dubious and distasteful sites.

Steve Davies

Good to hear, but there's no need to roll your eyes at me and spell my name wrong!

Name spelling now corrected, apologies.

And much appreciated it is too

B Sousa

I guess its my turn for an answer as I just received an email from the Morals Officer who did not like the reference to the website.
As I mentioned to him, the question was asked and I just posted the site as an answer on where to look.. That does not mean I gave it my approval.
Its like treating children, if there is something YOU dont like them to see you just restrict their viewing. Its PPrune Forum and the Mods here have that opportunity to do so.
Unfortunatley I have worked many accident Investigations and none are nice. It appears some of you have never been exposed to such horrible events. Better for you, but it is reality no matter how shocking.
For those who dont like the site I would also tell them dont go there.
Its a distasteful site for sure and Im sure most of those who complain made sure they went through the complete list while viewing it.
I think that the mods should eliminate the whole thread thus ending the whole controversy.
Two Cents, End of Story........

Steve Davies

B Souza,

This thread has some value for anone who is or will be anywhere near a working helicopter at anytime in the future.

In the 5-short years that I have been a PPL(H) I have never once considered that a gust of wind could result in such a tragedy - I certainly don't think that deleting the entire thread is in anyone's interests.

Just my 0.02p and end of this thread for me too.

Dantruck

Time to knock some heads together, methinks!
Two points to make...
First...B Sousa. The original question was about information on the incident, not where to go to find the pictures. And aluding to prurient behaviour of fellow Pruners helps no-one. Mr Moderator was right to delete the link IMHO.
Second...Steve Davies. You should go demand your money back from whoever taught you to fly. The dangers of blade sail, teetering heads, sloping ground ops, etc, are well documented, as is the correct procedures for loading people rotors-running.
Anyway, the big issue here is helicopter safety, not misuse of the internet. That someone is dead is a bad thing. However, we have it in our power to make it just a little less bad if lessons can be learned, and re-occurance avoided. Steve D is right to seek further info. I too would welcome knowing what happened for future safety's sake.
Now...does anyone have any?

Lu Zuckerman

The link that Bert Sousa referenced was not the link to the subject photos. The link that Bert referenced is a collection of oddball stories taken from various newspapers and magazines. It had nothing to do with the gory photos of the poor man involved in the accident.

On another thread dealing with deck landings I posted the correct link. I recommended that the squeamish should not look at the photos. I also stated that the website was run by a bunch of perverts and that the person looking at the site should take that into consideration. I further stated that the pictures were from an official US Navy accident investigation and were obviously stolen and posted on the website. I further stated that when the US Navy JAG found this individual they would hang his ass out to dry (or, in similar words). The moderator removed the link.

Dantruck

Sorry Lu Zuckerman, but your assertions (first paragraph) are wholly wrong. I am in the unfortunate (professional) position of knowing that for sure.
Please check your facts before adding to a debate which, if you will allow, is trying to get at the factual background to a fatal incident.