RAH-66 Comanche News...
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RAH-66 Comanche News...
I was recently speaking with my CFI about the Comanche and he informed me that before the Army shut down the program they had built 13 ships total. That’s interesting because all the data that I can find on the subject suggests 4 at the most were made, with the general consensus being that only 2 were completed.
Anyhow I am wondering if anyone here knows what became of the project and "prototypes" after the army shut it down. In my internet travels I found these excellent Comanche resource pages:
Pictures: http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/boeing/r...he/page_01.http
Some GREAT videos: http://oh1ninja.la.coocan.jp/misc/comanche...anche_movie.htm
(this one is my favorite -- http://oh1ninja.la.coocan.jp/misc/comanche...ck_hovturn.mpeg )
-Seth
Anyhow I am wondering if anyone here knows what became of the project and "prototypes" after the army shut it down. In my internet travels I found these excellent Comanche resource pages:
Pictures: http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/boeing/r...he/page_01.http
Some GREAT videos: http://oh1ninja.la.coocan.jp/misc/comanche...anche_movie.htm
(this one is my favorite -- http://oh1ninja.la.coocan.jp/misc/comanche...ck_hovturn.mpeg )
-Seth
RAH - 66
I believe that there were only 3 built. A ground test article and two flight test vehicles. Like many past exotic programs theses vehicles will end up in the museum in Ft Rucker or on the parade grounds at Ft. Campbell.
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One of them is going to end up here http://www.helihq.com 
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Duff intel, I'm afraid.
Only nine EMD ships were being built, and only four of them were in build when the stop-work order came through. A/C #3 was due to fly in June 2005 (i.e. 16 months after the cancellation came).
A/C #2 is on display at the U.S. Army Aviation Museum at Rucker, and A/C #1 is going to the American Helicopter Museum in West Chester, PA.
I/C
Only nine EMD ships were being built, and only four of them were in build when the stop-work order came through. A/C #3 was due to fly in June 2005 (i.e. 16 months after the cancellation came).
A/C #2 is on display at the U.S. Army Aviation Museum at Rucker, and A/C #1 is going to the American Helicopter Museum in West Chester, PA.
I/C
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Ian,
I know this is probably a stupid question but do you know what happened to the engines and avionics? I'm sure they were probably removed but always wondered!
Thanks
Jim
I know this is probably a stupid question but do you know what happened to the engines and avionics? I'm sure they were probably removed but always wondered!
Thanks
Jim
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Several of the larger sub-system assets (hardware & IPR) were 'repatriated' during the termination negotiations (in lieu of hard currency...). Technology from the Longbow REU and MMA will find its way onto Block III/IV Apache, as will elements of the EOSS and INCIA, and the FBW system is already being read-across to other platforms (initially S-92 & US101, H-60 & AH-64 in later years). I believe that most of the engines went back to LHTEC, and these are also finding new homes (incl. X2).
I/C
I/C
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Thanks for the information, I will have to set my CFI straight in a courteous manner 
Really is too bad, I would love to have had the optorunity to see it fly.
-Seth
Really is too bad, I would love to have had the optorunity to see it fly.-Seth
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The #3 bird was almost ready for flight, and there were 8 others in various forms of completion. The pieces were crushed to be sure nobody could resurrect the program.
It was a kick to fly, a full 2 decades ahead of anything else out there. In spite of the PR that went out, few of the really advanced concepts found their way into anything else. This is mostly because the really advanced things rely on a fully integrated aircraft with a real central computer system and FBW, and such aircraft as the LUH and ARH have so little technology in them.
A brief run thru the technologies:
fly by wire that used velocity control, so no outside reference was needed for precise control in NOE environments.
Wide field of view, visually coupled helmet display with full aircraft health weapons and nav info so no heads down was ever needed.
Flight controls keyed to the weapons solution (integrated fire and flight controls) so that the aircraft pointed with uncanny accuracy and quickness
Fully integrated health caution and advisory info, so almost no gages had to be looked at. All emergencies were automatic cleanup by computer
Automatic target recognition and classification in half the time of a human crew
Fully automated use of the map as the mission analog, with all mission info presented on the detailed, colored terrain map. No grids were ever handled by the crew, all info was spotted on the map for the crew, or taken off the map when the crew pointed at the spot. Radios were tuned by the map as you crossed tactical boundaries. Spot reports were packaged by the system as the crew circled the map info, and cut and pasted it onto the spot report. Other crews were briefed by lead using a free hand white line that lead drew on their maps as he briefed them, "You set yourself HERE, this is your section of the kill zone." The manipulation of the pictoral mission elements was like Windows, but instead of an office desk, the cockpit behaved like a sand-table in a tactics school.
Radar, IR signatures that were so low, it was 1/300th the signature of an Apache, and could fly right up to the latest radar controlled gun and kill it with its 20mm gatling gun. No jammers were needed!
Full cabin overpressure so that flight in any chemical or nuclear (or Nuculur if you are Geo Bush!) environment could be accomplished with the crew in shirtsleeves
Ability to turn 180 degrees at any speed from 0 to 130 knots in less than 5 seconds, where the timing starts with target detect and ends with weapons launch.
Hover at altitudes up to 7500 feet DA in winds up to 45 knots without compromised yaw control.
Able to "snap turn" at 120 knots 90 degrees in less than 2 seconds to weapons launch
The program was on schedule, and the Army was pleased enough to have awarded the program maximum extra payments for excellence just a month or two before it was cancelled. Even the Army PM was not involved or informed of the cancellation decision. The Billions of completion funding was a ripe plum, picked and sent to Iraq, like 2 of my sons.
It was a kick to fly, a full 2 decades ahead of anything else out there. In spite of the PR that went out, few of the really advanced concepts found their way into anything else. This is mostly because the really advanced things rely on a fully integrated aircraft with a real central computer system and FBW, and such aircraft as the LUH and ARH have so little technology in them.
A brief run thru the technologies:
fly by wire that used velocity control, so no outside reference was needed for precise control in NOE environments.
Wide field of view, visually coupled helmet display with full aircraft health weapons and nav info so no heads down was ever needed.
Flight controls keyed to the weapons solution (integrated fire and flight controls) so that the aircraft pointed with uncanny accuracy and quickness
Fully integrated health caution and advisory info, so almost no gages had to be looked at. All emergencies were automatic cleanup by computer
Automatic target recognition and classification in half the time of a human crew
Fully automated use of the map as the mission analog, with all mission info presented on the detailed, colored terrain map. No grids were ever handled by the crew, all info was spotted on the map for the crew, or taken off the map when the crew pointed at the spot. Radios were tuned by the map as you crossed tactical boundaries. Spot reports were packaged by the system as the crew circled the map info, and cut and pasted it onto the spot report. Other crews were briefed by lead using a free hand white line that lead drew on their maps as he briefed them, "You set yourself HERE, this is your section of the kill zone." The manipulation of the pictoral mission elements was like Windows, but instead of an office desk, the cockpit behaved like a sand-table in a tactics school.
Radar, IR signatures that were so low, it was 1/300th the signature of an Apache, and could fly right up to the latest radar controlled gun and kill it with its 20mm gatling gun. No jammers were needed!
Full cabin overpressure so that flight in any chemical or nuclear (or Nuculur if you are Geo Bush!) environment could be accomplished with the crew in shirtsleeves
Ability to turn 180 degrees at any speed from 0 to 130 knots in less than 5 seconds, where the timing starts with target detect and ends with weapons launch.
Hover at altitudes up to 7500 feet DA in winds up to 45 knots without compromised yaw control.
Able to "snap turn" at 120 knots 90 degrees in less than 2 seconds to weapons launch
The program was on schedule, and the Army was pleased enough to have awarded the program maximum extra payments for excellence just a month or two before it was cancelled. Even the Army PM was not involved or informed of the cancellation decision. The Billions of completion funding was a ripe plum, picked and sent to Iraq, like 2 of my sons.
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Nick,
Thank you so much for your insight into the Comanche. I too feel like it was a real loss, even more now after hearing your description of its capabilities. Why not at least keep it on as a test bed if nothing else, so much work wasted it seems to me. Like you sons are now I have been to Iraq (2nd LAR, Mosul region) and have felt first hand the need for more up to date recon and suppression. I know that it would not have entered service for some time, but at the rate we are going the Comanche more than likely would have seen service in Iraq. Anyhow thanks again, and feel free to impart any more info as I truly enjoy it!
-Seth
Thank you so much for your insight into the Comanche. I too feel like it was a real loss, even more now after hearing your description of its capabilities. Why not at least keep it on as a test bed if nothing else, so much work wasted it seems to me. Like you sons are now I have been to Iraq (2nd LAR, Mosul region) and have felt first hand the need for more up to date recon and suppression. I know that it would not have entered service for some time, but at the rate we are going the Comanche more than likely would have seen service in Iraq. Anyhow thanks again, and feel free to impart any more info as I truly enjoy it!
-Seth
Nick, why crush the airframes? Would it not make sense to securely store them, should there become a requirement for this type in the future.
Seems like a pointless waste?
Seems like a pointless waste?
BigMike,
Why crush the airframes? Same reason the Canadians were forced to destroy every last vestige of the CF105 and the Brits the TSR2; in a word, POLITICS! This cuts both inside and outside the military. Those who's projects have now been funded by money cut from the Commanche programme have a vested interest in making sure a future administration doesn't reverse the decision-if partially complete airframes were available this would be far easier. Polticians also demand blood when they win, for the reason that they don't want to be embarressed if they find themselves in opposition and the new regime funds the programme and it's a runaway success. At the other end of the scale, storing partially completed (classified?) aircraft is not a cheap business. It's a crying shame that the Commanche got cut, but I can see the rationale-for this war. Not so sure about trying to sneak up to a SA15 or 2S6/SA19 in an Apache in the next one though.....
Why crush the airframes? Same reason the Canadians were forced to destroy every last vestige of the CF105 and the Brits the TSR2; in a word, POLITICS! This cuts both inside and outside the military. Those who's projects have now been funded by money cut from the Commanche programme have a vested interest in making sure a future administration doesn't reverse the decision-if partially complete airframes were available this would be far easier. Polticians also demand blood when they win, for the reason that they don't want to be embarressed if they find themselves in opposition and the new regime funds the programme and it's a runaway success. At the other end of the scale, storing partially completed (classified?) aircraft is not a cheap business. It's a crying shame that the Commanche got cut, but I can see the rationale-for this war. Not so sure about trying to sneak up to a SA15 or 2S6/SA19 in an Apache in the next one though.....
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gone....
An acquaintance here in CT informed me he has finished destroying and selling all the tooling left from the Commanche assembly line.......all in the scrap heap.....
Scrap Commanches
I heard that The Helicopter Museum in the UK asked if it could have a small piece of one to display alongside a model ,but were told "no" because they are foreigners !!
If anyone knows of a scrapyard with any remnants I'm sure they would love to [email protected]
If anyone knows of a scrapyard with any remnants I'm sure they would love to [email protected]
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"The pieces were crushed to be sure nobody could resurrect the program."
And i thought aerospace could be shortsighted in UK (same was done with TSR2 interceptor). Just make sure they don't screw Big Sky like happened to Lockheed Cheyenne. I still feel that the gyro system developed for CL475 would have save countless lives in private heli flying (aparently the system was not e-copied onto Lynx). Sounds like there were many good developments on Comanche...
Mart
And i thought aerospace could be shortsighted in UK (same was done with TSR2 interceptor). Just make sure they don't screw Big Sky like happened to Lockheed Cheyenne. I still feel that the gyro system developed for CL475 would have save countless lives in private heli flying (aparently the system was not e-copied onto Lynx). Sounds like there were many good developments on Comanche...
Mart
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Guess I was lucky to SEE it flying then! Ft Lauderdale a few years back at the exhibition centre down by the cruise ship docks. Was in company with a 76C which was all you could hear!
Graviman et al...I still can't believe somewhere there isn't a piece of Comanche around.There were a whole bunch on the lines at Boeing and Sikorsky and some of the scrap must still be around somewhere,even if the big parts were crushed..
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Being honest Heli1, i don't imagine crushing the airframes is as much of a big deal as it would have been just few years ago. There will be comprehensive CAD and FE and CFD models of the aircraft which would be the starting point for future development/resurection. The hardest part would be if the manufacturing jigs were destroyed, but i'm not sure Comanche had got that far (don't remember the phase gate decision structure used). The individual prototype build up would have been photographed and documented, and i suspect this still exists. The biggest problem when a project like this is scrapped is that the expertise loses morale and goes elsewhere - do i remember a certain test pilot going fixed wing? Mind you, given the circumstances it is well understandable.
Mart
Mind you, given the circumstances it is well understandable.Mart
It might not be a big deal for some but I remember seeing a line of tail units at Boeing,one of which would have made a splendid exhibit alongside a model of the aircraft.It reminds me of the demise of the Boeing HLH..destroyed wothout even asking other museums whether they might be interested in a piece.Come on Pruners in Phily and Stratford..have a good search !
