BA S-61 G-BEON

[Brian Abraham]

Anybody able to provide a copy of an official report on the 16 July 1983, British Airways' commercial Sikorsky S-61 helicopter G-BEON crash in the southern Celtic Sea when en route from Penzance to the St Mary's, Isles of Scilly in thick fog. No joy on AAIB and Google info not sufficiently detailed.
Thanks in advance.

[The Nr Fairy]

Brian:

I was looking for this some time ago. The National Archives at Kew hold a copy, but on requesting to see it, I was told it's not available to the public, under provisions of the Freedom of Information Act.

From memory, the reason given was that the report attributes blame so that's why it is restricted. The communication I had also described it as "the CAA report" into the incident.

I've just had a quick look at www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and it seems there's a trial download facility - but you have to pay, and it specifies a number of pages - no good if you don't know how many pages there are.

[solidity]

Brian,

Let sleeping tigers lay. Turn the computer off, open the curtains, collective down - engine levers off. Stop the digging and go and enjoy your retirement.

You need to remember that some of us want the same things you have enjoyed for the last 25 years!

[Brian Abraham]

Solidity,
Rather than hide behind your anonymity give me a ring. I'm in the book. Your not the one driving in the slow lane are you?

[solidity]

Brian,

Anonimity is my right as exercised by 99% of the forums users - I am not in the slow lane.

You are 'not current' and your agenda is old news. Why you continue to have an agenda in retirement is puzzling to say the least. The organisation has changed a lot in the 2 years you have been gone.

All the "I's" are dotted and the "T's" crossed in one of the best operations anywhere. Your opinion is no longer wanted or needed!

[Brian Abraham]

The Nr Fairy,
Thanks. What piqued my interest was an item on the web saying sections were not to be released until 2036 I think it was. Could not recall any thing particularly contencious in the original report, albeit it was a long time ago. Being government at the time guess it may be a case of the mandarins/politicians heading for the bunkers. Even if the report came up with "pilot error" its old time thinking (which I guess still existed at the time)to think that constitutes "blame".

Solid,
Re your presumptious, unsolicited and unwarranted assertions
1. Until I draw my last breath I will partake of my interest in aviation, science, engineering, aviation, astronomy, medicine - and did I mention aviation
2. Your presumption that there is any ongoing agenda is just that and totally without foundation and fact. Me thinks you are a little gun shy.
3. I always said it was the best job in the world but even you on your worse day would have to acknowledge that flying operations up to the time I left left a great deal to be desired vis a vis compliance.
4. Yes I did have an agenda when I left but that shot was fired long ago. If things have improved then it must not have been all in vain, but only you can judge. As you say I am not current.
5. For the reason for the all pilots meeting called on the 7th inst I'm afraid you will have to look to your fellow employees, or those that have joined and left since my departure. I was intrigued by managements supposed "put up or shut up" stance at the meeting and am left to muse in my idle moments what that says about the state of affairs.
6. Re "your opinion is no longer wanted or needed". That was always managements view point on any flying operation/safety issue in my day - so nothings changed there then.
7. I think on this occasion the Mods may permit an apology to be posted but doubt that you would be forthcoming.

[Camp Freddie]

I suspect I am not the only one that had no idea what you guys were on about, so I had a little bit of a look round and found this below on wikipedia,
however at the bottom it says 2016, not 2036.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsk..._disaster_1983

regards

CF

[212man]

Camp Fredie, it was the main accident that led to the mandating of AVAD on offshore flights.

JAR-OPS 3.660 Radio Altimeters
(a) An operator shall not operate a helicopter
on a flight over water;

(1) when operating out of sight of the
land; or

(2) when the visibility is less than
1 500 m; or

(3) at night; or

(4) at a distance from landcorresponding to more than 3 minutes at normal cruising speed,

unless that helicopter is equipped with a radio
altimeter with an audio voice warning, or other
means acceptable to the Authority, operating
below a preset height and a visual warning
capable of operating at a height selectable by the

[Night Watchman]

it's not available to the public, under provisions of the Freedom of Information Act

Isn't that a contradiction?????

And why is a report on a civil aircraft accident not available to the public?
And why is solidity trying to stop Brian Abraham looking into it?

All it does is suggest that things are not as they may seem.

[rjdude]

Very strange. According to the National Archives website, the 'closure' status is 'Open Document, Open Description' the closed until date is 2006....
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/c...lDetails=False

[Brian Abraham]

rjdude - agree fully with your comment.

212man - you are familiar with the Brit scene. Any idea why the report may have been locked up? Do you recall anything that may have been contentious?

[The Nr Fairy]

I suspect at the time the Freedom of Information Act was brought in in the UK, there was a large amount of panic in lots of government and government-related organisations which lead to lots of stuff being inappropriately classified, which may include this report.

As an aside, the fact that older AAIB reports aren't readily available unless you know exactly what you're looking for, or (as in the case of the Tornado/C150 mid-air) incomplete is more of a problem, in my view.

[sox6]

Er, or you could go to the library to get the pudbished report. eg:
http://wba.dominohosting.biz/members...ent&AutoFramed

Document Title:

Report on the accident to British Airways Sikorsky S-61N/G-BEON ... 16 July, 1983 ... aircraft accident report ; 8/84

Corporate Author:

D.E.T.R Air Accident Investigation Branch.

Date Published:

1985

Document Category:

Transport

Document Sub-category:

Air

Keyword Descriptors:

Accident
Air
Helicopter
Transport

Document Synopsis:

Report on the accident to British Airways Sikorsky S-61N/G-BEON ... 16 July, 1983 ... aircraft accident report ; 8/84

Publisher:

London : HMSO

ISBN/ISSN:

0115506802 ISBN

Location Of Full Document:

Westcountry Studies Library

Geographic Location:

Isles of Scilly

Type Of Document:

REPORT

Format Of Document:

BOOK

Size Of Full Document:

[48]p ; 30cm

Contact Details For Further Copies:

Westcountry Studies Library, Castle Street, Exeter, Devon, EX4 3PQ; Tel: [phone]; Web: http://www.devon.gov.uk/library/locstudy/wsl.html

Security Access Level:

Public Access

[The Nr Fairy]

sox:

Not quite. Libraries don't hold the report per se, except perhaps the ones in Cornwall may have access to a copy held by the central library.

Things may not all appear to be what they seem from a) the internet and b) Holland.

[sox6]

Nr Fairey

For example in your case you could go down to your local library in Aston Close on Tuesday morning when it next opens at 10am. Give the nice librarian the ISBN and either 50p if there is a copy in Wiltshire or £3 to do an inter-library loan. The english library system is a very undervalued gem in the age of the internet.
http://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/leisure-...ry-charges.htm

Brian, I don't know where you are in Australia, but I do know a similar inter-library service is possible from the Public Library Service in SA at least.


So what might not be as it seems?

Perhaps that this was not long before 1/4/84 when the assets and liabilites of the statutory corporation British Airways were vested in British Airways plc and that before the privitisation 3 years latter were B737 G-BGJL (55 dead) and BV234 G-BWFC (45 fatalities).

Perhaps its BA's slow response to the prior G-ASWI accident in Aug 1981 or the G-BDIL accident in Sept 1982 after which AIB first recommended what became AVAD. Or perhaps its that the AIB did not publish these recommendations until August 1983 and June 1984, after G-BEON's accident.

Perhaps the wrecakge of G-BEON is in a secret AAIB bunker just over the Berkshire canal along with the relics of an alien spacecraft that crash landed at Avebury.
http://www.multimap.com/map/photo.cg...multimap.y=295
<<Though I doubt it!>>

Or perhaps its the tragegy that 10 people have died in the Gulf of Mexico as recently as 23 March 2004 over 20 years after the first AIB recommendation for the lack of the completely alien in the US, but cheap and simple AVAD system.

However I'd be facinated to be enlightened.

[Brian Abraham]

Or perhaps its the tragegy that 10 people have died in the Gulf of Mexico as recently as 23 March 2004 over 20 years after the first AIB recommendation for the lack of the completely alien in the US, but cheap and simple AVAD system.

My own (ex) company had the requirement for AVAD written into its "standards" book as they were "worlds best practice" and only now I believe are starting to fit the kit. We cant rush into these things.

And thanks to all for the replies. I guess I'll just have to get the wallet out and spend some hard earned. Always make Pprune the first port of call when shopping because its such a knowledgable and valuable resource - and its free.

[will fly for food 06]

I was one when this happened and on my dads boat, one of the first there with professional divers on board. It was a sad day. Having been in the dunker a few times it must have been terrible in reality.

[bolkow]

I cannot remember where I read this apparent fact in relation to the G-BEON crash, but I did read somewhere that the pilots had turned off a ground proximity audible warning device in the machine which then allowed them to collide without warning with the surface of the sea when disorientated in heavy fog?

[212man]

Not true: there wasn't one fitted. The accident did, however, precipitate the mandating of AVAD in the UK.

[bolkow]

Originally Posted by 212man

Not true: there wasn't one fitted. The accident did, however, precipitate the mandating of AVAD in the UK.

Oh well, just goes to show I should be more critical about what I read?, my sources