Pudnucker

Guys,

Currently have a standard PPL and fly in fixed wing Cherokee Archer (shared ownership), I'm at a crossroads with my flying - do I now go at get a fixed wing IR rating or go on to helicopters?

I really want to fly helicopters but the most limiting factor is one of cost. My Archer is currently costing £80 a month (hangerage and insurance) and around £80 wet (all up inc maintenance, fuel, engine fund etc). I know helicopters are more money but the question is how much more? No one seems to be able to help give me an accurate idea (except double or treble)!!!

Other questions I have is; what other exams are needed (obviously already done law, nav, human factors, radio, aeroplane technical and flight planning & performance - presume that the only one I'll need is helicopter technical?

Final question (sorry!!); as I already fly everywhere in UK airspace, would you recommend training in the US? It seems significantly cheaper (and after all, I only need to know how to fly it and not navigate it!)

Many thanks

float test

what type of chop are we talking 22, 44, merlin, chinnook

Pudnucker

Hiller 12C, Hughes 300

rotornut

Cost:
helicopter = fixed wing x 10,000

OK, I'm exaggerating a bit but having owned a Hughes 269B I can tell you they are expensive.

Whirlygig

Exam wise, I don't think you would need to do more than the helicopter technical and the paper specific to the type so, two more exams at the most.

Flying wise (for a PPL(H)), you can only get a maximum of a 6 hour "allowance" for having a fixed wing licence so the minimum is 39 hours.

If you're looking at a Schweizer and you're in Dorset, we are thinking Bournemouth Helicopters. Give them a ring for prices. I have flown with them a few times and was more than happy with the tuition received. You will be looking at around £280 an hour inc VAT and landing fee.

It's unlikely that you would pass in minimum hours; few people do but, with a fixed wing licence already you may not be far off the mark.

I'm not sure I would recommend a PPL on a Hiller only because there are so few in the country but, if there is one near to you that you will be able to fly post-PPL, then that may be an option. But the Schweizer is a cracking little helicopter!

Cheers

Whirls

Pandalet

To give an alternative, the school I fly out of charges 235 quid/hr dual or 170/hr SFH for a R22. I'm not saying that the R22 is better or worse than a 300, as I've only ever flown a 22, and thus am not in a position to make comparisons.

I have an idea a R22 costs around 120 pounds per hour to run, although that would depend on insurance costs and how much flying you actually do in a given year.

Cheerio
P'let

muffin

Like you I also have flown fixed wing for several years. I went rotary (as well) about 6 years ago - best thing I ever did. Whirls has already answered the questions re licence addition - I did mine just pre JAR so my experience was slightly different anyway.

I took about 50 hours to get my PPL(H) which is probably typical as I am well over the hill now. I now have about 250 hours rotary. For the first 4 years or so I rented. However, the place is about an hours drive from me and I found I was flying less and less as there was never a helicopter available when I wanted one. So I bought my own R22 just over a year ago and keep it at a local farm.

I split the running costs with a friend and between the two of us we flew about 120 hours last year. If you reckon on operating costs being about double those of an equivalent fw you will not be far out.

The great thing is the utility. If is is in your garden you use it frequently. I have not yet worked out exact costs, but one interesting statistic is that those 120 hours represent about 250 flights - an average of 30 mins per flight.

I would rather fly rotary than get a fw IR any day. I also have a share in a permit aircraft which by contrast costs almost nothing to fly.

HillerBee

The running cost of Hiller 12C are hard to say. Because it's old technology it's not predictable. For continuity a Schweizer 300 is a better way to go. However flying on the Hiller is more fun and it's a 'real' helicopter. If you buy a very nice refurbished Hiller and maintain it very well you get a lot of fun out of it.

I fly both by the way, and have a quite a lot of experience on both.

Hughes500

If you are a fixed wing pilot and learn in a S300 expect to pass in 39 hours. So far every fixed wing pilot I have trained in Devon has passed in under 40 hours. Expect to have 10 to 15 % more time if you try an R22

007helicopter

Hiller 12C for me is £1800 pa 3rd party insurance, 12GPH Fuel, £225 pcm hangarage, first year about £3K maintenance and annual. So very inexpensive as far as helicopters go.

Does not allow for any major parts required but so far not required.

Can put you in touch with a Hiller instructor in Florida and will be about USD $220 per hour. Much cheaper of course in the USA, I did both - depends how much time you can afford to be away from the UK.

Also although possibly selling mine at the moment would also consider a 3-4 share with the right people if it does not sell, which would make it incredibly inexpensive to operate. Based at Rochester in Kent EGTO.

Even if not interested in mine pm as can help if you decide a Hiller is right for you.

scooter boy

Pudnucker, I was in the same position as you 7 years ago and chose the fixed wing IR first. I did my PPL(H) 2 years after that.
I think a factor of 4 is not unreasonable when you are comparing operating costs for whisk vs plank.
i:e 4 plank hours = 1 whisk hour
Insurance hurts the most but its all bloody expensive.
You will also begin to increasingly resent paying landing fees when you do have to be handled at an airport if most of your flying becomes private site to private site.
Most importantly - try to remember which one you are in at any given moment in order to avoid unnecessary bills!

SB