Power Up

Without trying to cause offence, some people complaining about professionalism believe that they are not allowed to lighten up. Because people can have a banter - does that mean they are any less professional whilst they are performing their job?

Sorry but personally I would not want to fly with someone who has such an attitude towards others without understanding thier positions. To me arrogant and obnoxious mean dangerous to me.

Old Man Rotor

I can see the different points quite clearly.....

The practicalities verses the legalities.

Mr Airwon states a list of 9 examples in an attempt to justify why he/she/?? could/should leave the controls of a machine under power.

My view is that a Manhattan Lawyer would tear strips off Mr Won in support of his [??] boss, who would be trying to get back some of his investment money that the pilot rolled into a ball.
The bottom line is that in every case he[??] could [should] have shut down...anything else is a practical or commercial issue that would not [may not] stack up in the cold reality of the legal process.

But I'm not a lawyer, so we will never really know. Protect your own &^%$side in this industry, bacause everyone will try to get even at some stage.

PS. Mr Won, I suggest you insert your experience, quals, etc on your profile so you can enjoy some credibility when you post.

Bravo 99

Not done it my self and unless my operator insists it will not be done I was at castle Air the other day and there is a lovely Agusta 109 in the back of the shed in bits pilot got out for a leak rotors running and well over she went
friend of mine In the services watched a puma go over as the pilot got out for a flask of tea
this little beastie rolled a fair old distance before finishing in a heap
(no not the done thing i think)
also sorry guys but the last few posts seem a little heavy if someone wants to get out of a helo rotors running let him do so but dont let him fly with me
I believe that when Ii was trained it was not and is not the correct thing to do, and if you get out for any reason rotors running you may be a hero at the time if all gos well but is the ship gos tits up then the first name that you will be called is ****. the second is legal help required for a ****
still not the done thing to many eyeballs of dented ships for my liking to do it

Thomas coupling

Mrs Thomasina Coupling here:
I'd like to make it quite clear who does the starching and bulling in this household....as for leaving his chopper unattended while his motor is running.......
I'll be the judge of that and another for Air1.xxx

Hey Bravo 99, who was the driver of the rolled Agusta at the time?

Bravo 99

not sure the A/C had all the reg markings off it but i think it was a spanish police ship. it looked a sorry site i must say

Aser

Spanish police (and Guardia Civil) uses Bo-105 , BK-117 , EC-120 and recently EC-135 , I was told by a police mechanic that agusta made a bid for the A109 Power but... EC-135 was the winner (of course)

Regards.

Bomber ARIS

Aser,
The 109 is no stranger in Spain, por ejemplo EMS with Helisureste, but you do raise the question of its suitability(or otherwise) in the police ops role.

I believe that in the UK, the ratio of police 109s to 135s is somewhat uneven. I have been told that the sole British example is down to the ultra-aggressive, bend-over-forward-approach taken by the somewhat desperate UK dealer in order to have a token Police aircraft (with discount) to join their token EMS charity-buster(Mark 2!!)..........

..............I'll get my coat!!

Bravo 99

Did not what to get into a scrap chaps
North wales police has I beleive the only a109 and there is a Hems machine at sloanes the remaining police ships are either 135 355 902 and pas has a bo 105 not sure if its a spare or front line
pretty sure this 109 was from spain but as i said there was no reg on it
regards
Bravo 99

Thomas coupling

Bravo 99: For N Wales, read Dyfed Powys (Southish wales).
Might the 'black' 109 be a castle Air helo ?

Bomber: You can't say that on TV

Power Up

The A109 for sloane - isn't that the yellow Princess Diana HEMS based at Coventry?

Aser

Bomber:
I known that Helisureste has a "large" fleet of 109 in various versions for EMS , recently I have been in Valencia airport when a helisureste 109 landed (and I saw real cool Bell-412 inside the hangar), but we aren't going to see any state police A109 due to the political and economical implication of Spain in Eurocopter.
I think the A-109E Power it's a great helicopter (a real Cat A) , my personal (and not qualified opinion) it's that EC-135 is more reliable and better designed for police ops ,also I haven't read about this kind of accidents http://www.apythel.org/exterior/acci...htm#Additional regarding the EC.

In the other hand, I'll admit that EC-135 is uglier than A-109E
Good spanish, Bomber Aris

Bravo99:
Are you sure it was a police helo? or could it be a civil one?

Regards.
Just a student pilot...

Bravo 99

pretty sure but it was at a fleeting glance
however there was a shed load of 109s in there
but pretty sure however I may be wrong

with regards th EC 135 it is good for police ops I am told. but I have it on a good say so that the MD 902 explorer is better (but dont wish to start world war three on the issue) and it is only a drivers point
regards
Bravo 99

Choppersquad

gents

your thoughts, just after dropping pax off .the paxs have not closed the back door correctly you need to land in a field and close the door .


my question is
is there a safe procedure that you can leave the 206 rotors running with no one at the controls while you get out and close the back door correctly.i understand the safest way is to shut down but looking to avoid this if possable .

thanks
cs

Up & Away

Without qualified ground crew support on arrival always shut down to disembark pax.

MightyGem

Have to agree with that, but you try keeping an impatient pax for the two minute run down.

407 too

last couple replies missed the question

flight idle, friction locks on. (wait for rpm to run down)

other than that, a tall stump to bump against to close door

or just shut down

Thomas coupling

Depends what your FLM says. Can you leave the controls of a helo thats running?

407 too

legality and practicality are two different things, how many of you have exited a running machine when montizuma's revenge has struck, or that last coffee that can't wait for another half hour ??? --be honest--

Teefor Gage

There are too many "what ifs" in the original question for there to be a safe way of leaving the controls while the rotors are still powered.
What if there turbine decides to run-way up?
What if one of the control servos decides to have a "stroll"
What if there is a fluky gust of wind. 407 too suggests "flight idle, friction locks on. (wait for rpm to run down)" - Blade sailing is far more pronounced at lower rpm

Then there are some more "what ifs" for the shut down scenario.
What if the starter motor fails when you are in such a remote location.
What if there is a fire on start up?

If only life was simple.........

407 too's second post talks of the difference between legality and practicality. You try explaining that the accident happend "cos you only left the controls unmanned for a few seconds while you did whatever" and see how far it gets you in court.......

Capt Hollywood

Be it right or wrong, legal or illegal, I don't know too many people who would shut down a 206 just to shut a back door. I think if we're being honest most would land, frictions on, get out and shut the door, get back in and fly away.

Of course I would never do that as technically in Oz that would be illegal as it is not for the safety of persons in or in the vicinty of the helicopter.

CH