Apps and W&B spreadsheets for iPhone/Palm/Android/Blackberry
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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Apps and W&B spreadsheets for iPhone/Palm/Android/Blackberry
Do any of you fine people have info on good helo w&b apps for a palm / PDA?
My search got me as far as this app
http://www.palmgear.com/index.cfm?fu...&prodID=106568
Anyone tried it before I splosh the dosh? Any other providers or freeware known
Thanks
My search got me as far as this app
http://www.palmgear.com/index.cfm?fu...&prodID=106568
Anyone tried it before I splosh the dosh? Any other providers or freeware known
Thanks
Join Date: Oct 2003
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Try this Link... http://www.palmflying.com/
Personnaly I prefer Copilot. It's free and is very much like the program you are looking at. Copilot also has navigation and flight plan features that you may find useful. Copilot won't figure the lateral CG for you so if you need that feature you will have to go with 'Load Balance Helicopter'
Personnaly I prefer Copilot. It's free and is very much like the program you are looking at. Copilot also has navigation and flight plan features that you may find useful. Copilot won't figure the lateral CG for you so if you need that feature you will have to go with 'Load Balance Helicopter'
"Just a pilot"
I have a 350BA, B2 in Excel, created by me- it's just data, doesn't plot and isn't pretty. Intended for my EMS job, it calculates actual W&B, max patient weight (limited by forward CG) and some other odds & ends. PM me and I'm glad to share.
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I have used the Copilot programme on my Zire31 for a couple of months and it is great for W&B.
You can enter any specs for any helo with a bit of effort and time. It will plot your Long W&B.
I have it for the Astar, Bell 206 series and the 500. Great little programme. Also have a coversion programme for fluids and volume which is handy when the brain forgets stuff...
You can enter any specs for any helo with a bit of effort and time. It will plot your Long W&B.
I have it for the Astar, Bell 206 series and the 500. Great little programme. Also have a coversion programme for fluids and volume which is handy when the brain forgets stuff...
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Copilot is just about all you need for flying. I also use MobileDB for holding the ~10,000 waypoints I need for all the platforms, customer heliports, airports, hospitals, and centers of all the lease blocks in the GOM, often needed to get close enough to newly-arrived drilling rigs, seismic boats, etc, that I often need. Copilot just doesn't have the storage space for everything, plus it slows things down too much. But for most use, Copilot is all you need. Databases are available for most of the world.
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Thanks for the info and the offers of spreadsheets. I am not certain of what ships I will be flying untill I get on site. Gomer Pylot I will be heading to the GOM soon. Actually that is what is getting me interested in the use of a PDA. Is the 10,000 waypoints database available, or do you have a LOT of patience inputing
Thanks
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The databases are available here.
It's in MobileDB format, and includes both the platforms and the coordinates of the center of all the lease blocks. There are 2 databases, each with about half the locations. Make sure you get both.
BTW, if you get the trial version of MobileDB from Handmark, you can save the databases as Excel spreadsheets, comma-delimited text files, .csv, or whatever, and then use another database app to read them. IME MobileDB is an excellent Palm database app, and worth the money. If you don't want to pay for it, pilot-db is freeware, and works fairly well, although not as full-featured as MobileDB. There are other database apps available, but I haven't used them, and can't comment.
It's in MobileDB format, and includes both the platforms and the coordinates of the center of all the lease blocks. There are 2 databases, each with about half the locations. Make sure you get both.
BTW, if you get the trial version of MobileDB from Handmark, you can save the databases as Excel spreadsheets, comma-delimited text files, .csv, or whatever, and then use another database app to read them. IME MobileDB is an excellent Palm database app, and worth the money. If you don't want to pay for it, pilot-db is freeware, and works fairly well, although not as full-featured as MobileDB. There are other database apps available, but I haven't used them, and can't comment.
Last edited by Gomer Pylot; 7th Sep 2005 at 20:58.
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Weight & Balance Spreadsheets (incl for PDAs)
Hi all,
I have been asking different drivers on what types of 'Cheat Sheets' they use for quick Weight & Balance calculations in the 'Real World'. And basically the most common seems to be a fuel qty vs payload available, simple enough.
BUT, I have double checked all of the calculations on the various Helicopter types I have these Cheat Sheets available on : R22, R44, B47, B206, and have found that whilst the numbers may be within the lateral and longditudinal envelopes. When I try spreading different weights around the various machines the C of Gs can go outside the limitations.
I realise that alot of you guys out there may know alot of different Tips & Tricks in relation to this subject, and that alot of it comes with experience, but in such a litigious World I am hoping some of you can share them with us more inexperienced guys.
eg: Overweight people under the mast etc etc .
Am I being too pedantic ?
And if anybody out there has any well setout 'Cheat Sheets' I would appreciate a copy if possible.
PS - Mainly interested on R44's, but appreciate all info.
PM me.
Thanks for sharing !
Loachster
I have been asking different drivers on what types of 'Cheat Sheets' they use for quick Weight & Balance calculations in the 'Real World'. And basically the most common seems to be a fuel qty vs payload available, simple enough.
BUT, I have double checked all of the calculations on the various Helicopter types I have these Cheat Sheets available on : R22, R44, B47, B206, and have found that whilst the numbers may be within the lateral and longditudinal envelopes. When I try spreading different weights around the various machines the C of Gs can go outside the limitations.
I realise that alot of you guys out there may know alot of different Tips & Tricks in relation to this subject, and that alot of it comes with experience, but in such a litigious World I am hoping some of you can share them with us more inexperienced guys.
eg: Overweight people under the mast etc etc .
Am I being too pedantic ?
And if anybody out there has any well setout 'Cheat Sheets' I would appreciate a copy if possible.
PS - Mainly interested on R44's, but appreciate all info.
PM me.
Thanks for sharing !
Loachster
I suggest you make up some sample W+Bs.
One should reflect a full cabin load / fuel load to give you the most forward limit on take off . Do another to insure that you will still be in limits with minimum fuel.
On most helicopters the C of M or C of G will move forward as fuel is burned. The 212 / 205 actually moves fwd as fuel burns down to about 480 LBs of fuel then moves slightly back below that fuel load. This is true of the 206 L also. In these cases the fuel loading table will point this out.
Do another to reflect an a/c most Aft limit. In the 212 or 76 for example this would be with minimum crew and full fuel.
Do another to reflect the limit with min fuel for landing.
If the a/c has a baggage compartment don't forget to do one for most fwd and aft with the baggage compartment full.
After you have done this you should have a good idea of fwd and aft loads that are at the limits and how fuel burns affect the C of G
Keep yer loads within the limits you have plotted.
If someone asks for a "strange" load compute an actual C of G for that flight.
In any case when taking off to the hover feel cyclic position - if the cyclic is too far forward or aft you may be out of limits. Always keep in mind what effect fuel burn will have on C of G.
The first patter in the hover with our company is "C of G ?" If that isn't right you are not going anywhere.
The 204 for example was very bad with full pax seats, most fwd fuel and no baggage in the tail boom. It has suprised many on landing back at base.
In any case "Herr Instructor" will be able to advise you.
One should reflect a full cabin load / fuel load to give you the most forward limit on take off . Do another to insure that you will still be in limits with minimum fuel.
On most helicopters the C of M or C of G will move forward as fuel is burned. The 212 / 205 actually moves fwd as fuel burns down to about 480 LBs of fuel then moves slightly back below that fuel load. This is true of the 206 L also. In these cases the fuel loading table will point this out.
Do another to reflect an a/c most Aft limit. In the 212 or 76 for example this would be with minimum crew and full fuel.
Do another to reflect the limit with min fuel for landing.
If the a/c has a baggage compartment don't forget to do one for most fwd and aft with the baggage compartment full.
After you have done this you should have a good idea of fwd and aft loads that are at the limits and how fuel burns affect the C of G
Keep yer loads within the limits you have plotted.
If someone asks for a "strange" load compute an actual C of G for that flight.
In any case when taking off to the hover feel cyclic position - if the cyclic is too far forward or aft you may be out of limits. Always keep in mind what effect fuel burn will have on C of G.
The first patter in the hover with our company is "C of G ?" If that isn't right you are not going anywhere.
The 204 for example was very bad with full pax seats, most fwd fuel and no baggage in the tail boom. It has suprised many on landing back at base.
In any case "Herr Instructor" will be able to advise you.
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First of all Weight & Balance calculations are very important and serve a purpose: Flight Safety.
I don't like the term Cheat sheets at all, and I think thats the wrong term. I have a number of possible weight & balance calculations available. If I run into a different situation I just make a weight & balance calculation as simple as that.
It's extremely dangerous flying out of CG. Two bladed helicopters have a very small CG range and when you're out you will run into mast bumping amongst others.
I don't like the term Cheat sheets at all, and I think thats the wrong term. I have a number of possible weight & balance calculations available. If I run into a different situation I just make a weight & balance calculation as simple as that.
It's extremely dangerous flying out of CG. Two bladed helicopters have a very small CG range and when you're out you will run into mast bumping amongst others.
Spencer17 took the words right out of my mouth - If you can shut the doors an an R44 it'll fly!
Seriously though, due to the fact that you have no baggage compartment in an R44 & everything must be carried within the confines of the cabin, as long as you don't exceed the weight limitations of the seats it will remain within CofG from full fuel through to empty. I don't think this rule of thumb will stand up in a court of law though!
Seriously though, due to the fact that you have no baggage compartment in an R44 & everything must be carried within the confines of the cabin, as long as you don't exceed the weight limitations of the seats it will remain within CofG from full fuel through to empty. I don't think this rule of thumb will stand up in a court of law though!
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'If you can shut the doors on a R44 it will fly'
You may be overlooking Waist line!
Stick a pax in the front with a large beer belly and you may easily run out of AFT Cyclic!
300lbs is a BIG Pax!
You may be overlooking Waist line!
Stick a pax in the front with a large beer belly and you may easily run out of AFT Cyclic!
300lbs is a BIG Pax!
Hi,
you can make your own excel-sheet - I can't - but we have some on the computer - for each helicopter we fly.
Another tip: http://www.pocketfms.com
W/B is included in the program - and it's for free
Greetings Flying Bull
you can make your own excel-sheet - I can't - but we have some on the computer - for each helicopter we fly.
Another tip: http://www.pocketfms.com
W/B is included in the program - and it's for free
Greetings Flying Bull
Re the spreadsheets - I've seen quite a few versions for various types, but never had a go at doing one myself, until just now.
Got a program called 'SOT Office' on the computer that's a free Excel clone, and just had a go, ended up being dead set simple to do after a bit of stuffing around (for a Squirrel though, where the fuel CofG stays the same for all fuel weights - might be a bit trickier for something else).
Anyhow, if you get one of those programs, or make one, you can quickly do up a bunch of calculations for the 'extremes' you could expect for your type of operation, and have the relevant ones in your flying bag for when you need them (or when the FOI comes around asking what you do for W&B!).
Knowing which way the CofG goes as fuel is burnt is definitely a good one to have in the back of your mind.
Flying Bull, the spreadsheet bizzo really did end up being easy, once I figured out how to make them little squares add up, multiply etc...
Got a program called 'SOT Office' on the computer that's a free Excel clone, and just had a go, ended up being dead set simple to do after a bit of stuffing around (for a Squirrel though, where the fuel CofG stays the same for all fuel weights - might be a bit trickier for something else).
Anyhow, if you get one of those programs, or make one, you can quickly do up a bunch of calculations for the 'extremes' you could expect for your type of operation, and have the relevant ones in your flying bag for when you need them (or when the FOI comes around asking what you do for W&B!).
Knowing which way the CofG goes as fuel is burnt is definitely a good one to have in the back of your mind.
Flying Bull, the spreadsheet bizzo really did end up being easy, once I figured out how to make them little squares add up, multiply etc...
"Just a pilot"
Brother, I wouldn't use any W&B computing assistance until I could "walk and chew gum at the same time" weight and balance-wise. Buy a calculator and a scratch pad, until you can. "GIGO" in a critical W&B computation will make you a sudden test pilot, and it's killed lottsa guys- you may not know you have an issue until you're deeply involved trying to survive it.
On the top of the scratch pad, put your aircraft's WT, MOM, and ARM (CG). Note the half dozen or so stations from the RFM. I'd shoot a copy of the fuel CG if it's irregular, like the 206 is, and do all this on the back of it. As you figure the actual, write'm down. Adjust with each change, for instance after a landing without cargo or passenger cahnge, all you gotta do is calculate the fuel burn's effect. A 2-memory calculator and some practice, you can do this quicker than you can write the result- I know, I've done this a hundred or so times in a day, many times.
If you're dead set on fiddling with more than this, issues arise:
How are you going to accurately place the weight? Is it reliably weighed, with it's CG marked?
How are you going to secure it at the designated station? This is why many loads are palletized.
How do you place it- are there indexes on your aircraft you can measure from?
Can you compute the lateral CG of the proposed load?
And the vertical?
Once you have a good understanding of all this, you'll have a chance of recognizing a calculated error, no matter how it arises.
It's really a bad feeling to run out of control authority. You don't want to do it casually.
On the top of the scratch pad, put your aircraft's WT, MOM, and ARM (CG). Note the half dozen or so stations from the RFM. I'd shoot a copy of the fuel CG if it's irregular, like the 206 is, and do all this on the back of it. As you figure the actual, write'm down. Adjust with each change, for instance after a landing without cargo or passenger cahnge, all you gotta do is calculate the fuel burn's effect. A 2-memory calculator and some practice, you can do this quicker than you can write the result- I know, I've done this a hundred or so times in a day, many times.
If you're dead set on fiddling with more than this, issues arise:
How are you going to accurately place the weight? Is it reliably weighed, with it's CG marked?
How are you going to secure it at the designated station? This is why many loads are palletized.
How do you place it- are there indexes on your aircraft you can measure from?
Can you compute the lateral CG of the proposed load?
And the vertical?
Once you have a good understanding of all this, you'll have a chance of recognizing a calculated error, no matter how it arises.
It's really a bad feeling to run out of control authority. You don't want to do it casually.
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Weight and Balance
I was doing the calculations by hand every flight. I found this Excel spread sheet from ChristChurch Helicopters and after checking it by hand and finding it to be excellent I have used it ever since.
I e-mailed to ask permission to do so and was given it freely.
Excellent folks
Dean: Vancouver, B.C. Canada
http://www.christchurchhelicopters.c...nd_Balance.xls
I e-mailed to ask permission to do so and was given it freely.
Excellent folks
Dean: Vancouver, B.C. Canada
http://www.christchurchhelicopters.c...nd_Balance.xls