PPRuNe Forums


Rotorheads A haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 9th May 2005, 19:07   #41 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
Age: 53
Posts: 241
Now I'm really interested... is there any chance of seeing a set of the letters too/from?

BW
bladewashout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th May 2005, 19:39   #42 (permalink)
TheFlyingSquirrel
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Ring them up and ask for the VAT pack - no it's not a German CD version of Frankie and co, but a comprehensive set of booklets telling all. They are extremely helpful but watch what you tell them - it ALL gets recorded !

Vat helpline - 0845 010 9000
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th Nov 2005, 11:49   #43 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: leicester
Posts: 414
VAT on CPL training

Hi,

Just need some advice on VAT on CPL training - I have no experience in this at all!

Can I claim back vat on expenses towards obtaining my CPL?

I know some people create a buisness name - does this act like your are self employed therefore reclaiming vat for the buisness (obtaining the cpl eg flying training, S.F.H. and study materials)?

How do you go about this? Bank manager? Cumstoms?



Please help with any advice - This is a real grey area for me

G-MADY
g-mady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Nov 2005, 12:11   #44 (permalink)

Hovering AND talking
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
Age: 52
Posts: 5,719
This is the most recent post on this topic

However, please be aware that HM Customs & Excise have now amalgamated with HM Inspector of Taxes into HM Revenue & Customs. This means that they now talk to each other!

You'll find them here

There's a lot of spurious advice out there so best to speak to HM R&C yourself. If, for example, somebody managed to reclaim VAT from pre-PPL stage (and I am surprised they got it but then, I claimed for things that strictly, I shouldn't have been able to!), it doesn't mean to say YOU can. Rules and guidelines change and much can be down to an individual inspector.

Be totally straight and honest with them and you'll find them very helpful.

Cheers

Whirls

PS - I may be doing a disservice to bank managers but NEVER ask a bank manager for taxation advice! Go to a professional accountant and preferable one that is a member of a professional institute working in public practice.
Whirlygig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Nov 2005, 18:46   #45 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 219
Definately go and see an accountant, mine had experience of a couple of other people who had done similar.

I was totally transparent, he ended up negotiating with tax office to get the most advantageous solution for my particular situation, suffice to say it was well worth the money. You don't need to set up a company, you'll just need a business account.
jemax is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 7th Feb 2006, 17:32   #46 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: uk
Age: 44
Posts: 2
Reclaiming VAT on ATPL(H) Training (UK)

Apologies if this has already been covered in another thread. I’ve searched the site but haven’t had any luck so far.

Probably a familiar story to most of you. I’m using the equity from a house sale to fund an ATPL(H) and then possibly a twin turbine rating and IR. My aim is to work offshore initially and then hopefully find my way to HEMS or Police work some time in the future.

I’ve been advised by many to consider setting myself up as a business in order to claim back the VAT on my training, but unfortunately have little idea of how to proceed.

The scary man at the VAT office has said that I must work freelance after training in order to claim, and that I must be able to prove that that is my aim.

Has anyone been through this particular minefield? Questions that spring to mind are…

Is this all a non-starter? Should I just crack on and accept this is going to cost a lot of money!

Is this an easy enough process or should I employ an accountant?

If I do claim VAT back and then don’t work freelance…what happens?

Plus many more……

I’d be grateful for any advice, experiences or referrals. Thanks in advance.


PTS

Last edited by PushToShock; 8th Feb 2006 at 16:16.
PushToShock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th Feb 2006, 21:40   #47 (permalink)

Better red than ...
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sheffield, England
Posts: 1,367
I think the definitive post on this subject was by m'learned & gallent colleague "Kissmysquirrel" on either these very pages or that of rotorheads. Try searching for posts by him (or her?). Would have been about 12 months ago.

h-r
helicopter-redeye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th Feb 2006, 09:29   #48 (permalink)
TheFlyingSquirrel
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
try this

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=172125
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th Feb 2006, 09:32   #49 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: leicester
Posts: 414
PushToShock,

I started a thread on this a couple of months ago - Im in the same situation (PPL(H) 90hrs, and 3 weeks inATPL studies)

I think we came to the conclusion that you cannot reclaim vat unless you are going to charge it later for your buisness. Now be carefull, suppose you set up a buisness with the intent of acting as "self employed" when working for an offshore company but then after a year find another job and no longer charge vat - the tax man might not be happy!

The other consideration we found was that if you reclaim vat at training and therefore have to charge it for employement, it could hurt your chances - the company will just reclaim what you charge them but its just hassel... in a world where chances are slim enough anyway.

I have begun my ATPL training without reclaiming - but hope this could change?

MADY
g-mady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th Feb 2006, 09:40   #50 (permalink)

Hovering AND talking
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
Age: 52
Posts: 5,719
Quote:
Is this all a non-starter? Should I just crack on and accept this is going to cost a lot of money!

No, it's not a non-starter and it is possible. HM Revenue & Customs are not THAT scary; they are usually very helpful.

Quote:
Is this an easy enough process or should I employ an accountant?
Depends! Do you feel happy filling in your own self-assessment tax return? If so, then a VAT application form shouldn't be too much of a problem. You have to come up with a business plan. If you employ an accountant, just make sure they don't charge more than the VAT reclaimed! You should be able to find one who will give you the advice on initial set-up and then leave it to you. There are other implications as well such as self-employed status for income tax and whether you feel you ought to set up a Limited Company and invoice through that if your employment/self-employed status is in doubt.


Quote:
If I do claim VAT back and then don’t work freelance…what happens?
You pay it back. Possibly with interest. If you go North-Sea, you need to find out how many freelancers there are there; I thought most were employees. Freelancers tend to be more instructors (from my understanding although I'm sure someone will correct me!)


G-Mady, it's no extra hassle for a VAT-registered operator to reclaim the VAT you have charged. No hassle at all. A certain "HERB" software that I often recommend, will do it automatically.

Cheers

Whirls
Whirlygig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th Feb 2006, 09:49   #51 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: In my tank engine
Posts: 191
VAT

Hi Push To Shock

I done my training and set my self up self employed and VAT registered about 11 years ago.

As far as I know setting your self up self employed is much easier now than it was then. If you get in contact with the Inland Revenue they should be able to help you out, I went to a seminar at the Chamber Of Commerce and visited a few organisations which give advice on going self employed, this was free so I would not bother getting an accountant these organisations can tell you all you need to know.

You will have to say that you intend to make your living self employed.

When I originally registered self employed Customs & Excise told me that I would have to make my first sale before they would pay me the VAT which I had paid out for training back.

My first sale was working for the company which provided my helicopter training, I worked ground crew for them for the day, sent them an invoice, done my VAT return and got the VAT back from my training, no problem. At this point I had not even finished my training.

When you register as self employed you will be asked what type of activities you will be doing, don't just say pilot, don't forget ground crew services, helicopter sales etc. This will allow you to claim that VAT back before you finish your training.
.
ThomasTheTankEngine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th Feb 2006, 10:03   #52 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Swansea, South Wales,UK
Posts: 57
Best speak to an accountant on this. Like Solicitors, many offer a free initial consultation. You will need to become self employed and register for VAT. Some of my business associates have claimed back the vat on PPL (H) training and left it to their accountants to sort it out, then justify it with the VAT people. Also talk to your local training and enterprise council and find out about a free bookkeeping and business advice course.
Whirlybird may be a good person to advise here as she was self employed before starting her PPL training. PM her.
Mike
Sewing Machine Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th Feb 2006, 10:36   #53 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Swansea, South Wales,UK
Posts: 57
I'm not a professional pilot, but I am a business man so.. Fact .. you can claim VAT and not charge for it... e.g If you were to manufacture childrens clothes, you would pay and claim back the vat on the fabrics and threads to make them. But would not charge vat on the finished products as there is no vat on childrens clothes. You would in fact be receiving a cheque from the vat office every three months.
These days there is no real hassle with modern accountancy software. The one I use produces a VAT return on screen. I just copy it into the paper vat return and send them a cheque for the difference between the vat I collect from customers and the vat I claim on goods and services.
Bottom line.. Talk to an accountant on the best move.
Quote:
Originally Posted by g-mady
PushToShock,
I started a thread on this a couple of months ago - Im in the same situation (PPL(H) 90hrs, and 3 weeks inATPL studies)
I think we came to the conclusion that you cannot reclaim vat unless you are going to charge it later for your buisness. Now be carefull, suppose you set up a buisness with the intent of acting as "self employed" when working for an offshore company but then after a year find another job and no longer charge vat - the tax man might not be happy!
The other consideration we found was that if you reclaim vat at training and therefore have to charge it for employement, it could hurt your chances - the company will just reclaim what you charge them but its just hassel... in a world where chances are slim enough anyway.
I have begun my ATPL training without reclaiming - but hope this could change?
MADY
Sewing Machine Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th Feb 2006, 11:08   #54 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: uk
Age: 44
Posts: 2
Thanks to all for the advice. Certainly given me a few good leads.

Cheers,
PTS
PushToShock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th Feb 2006, 11:36   #55 (permalink)

Hovering AND talking
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
Age: 52
Posts: 5,719
Sewing Machine Man,

I am a little bothered by your reply as it seems to imply (or maybe I have inferred) that there is an option to charge VAT.

If your turnover/sales are over a certain amount (£60k), you must register for VAT. You can register for VAT voluntarily if your turnover is less than that and it is acceptable to do this if you can reclaim initial business set-up costs (i.e. training).

It is a little erroneous to talk about VAT on children's clothing since we are not talking about children's clothing here on rotorheads. Anyone setting up as a freelance pilot will be making VAT-able supplies. The supply is VAT-able whatever; it's just that under a certian limit, HMR&C don't mandate that you account for it.

Strictly speaking, there is VAT on children's clothes just as there is VAT on food and books. It's just that the rate of VAT is zero. This is different to items that are exempt or outside the scope of VAT. You have to make sure that you account for your zero-rated supplies differently to your exempt supplies. The reason for this is that it only requires the Chancellor's budget to raise the rate of VAT on these items; the exempt items would require an Act of Parliament to change.

I don't wish to obfuscate the issue but I don't want anyone to think that there is an option to charge VAT - there isn't in this context (unless you don't want to register and won't earn more than £60,000).

I would also add that you can only reclaim VAT on going back 6 months for services (which is what training is classified as) and 3 years for goods (i.e. your Pooley's CRP-5) from when you register. If you do a PPL and then decide you want to go CPL, then you won't get the VAT back on the PPL unless you register within 6 months and can prove that CPL was your intention all along. Whether you get that one past the VATman is down to the individual inspector.

Cheers

Whirls
Whirlygig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th Feb 2006, 12:06   #56 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Swansea, South Wales,UK
Posts: 57
Well thats cleared that up then.








I wonder what obfuscate means? I like that word.

Mike
Sewing Machine Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th Feb 2006, 12:11   #57 (permalink)

Hovering AND talking
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
Age: 52
Posts: 5,719
OK! Use "cloud" instead!

Cheers

Whirls
Whirlygig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th Feb 2006, 12:33   #58 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 350
From now on, whenever getting the Met, I shall now determine the obfuscation amount and base.
Robbo Jock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th Feb 2006, 12:39   #59 (permalink)

Hovering AND talking
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
Age: 52
Posts: 5,719
Well, obfuscation is what you usually get from them anyway!!

Cheers

Whirls
Whirlygig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th Feb 2006, 14:33   #60 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 219
And then of course there is offsetting costs of training against any PAYE you may have earnt in the same tax year.

This can bring a very pleasant surprise.
jemax is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 07:21.


© 1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1