The venerable Bell 47
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Bell 47
I have been asked by a four man ownership grouo to try and source them a Bell 47. They are looking for a G3B1 or G4 to be based in East Anglia. Budget is a bit tight at £45k - £50k though I suspect could get to £55k for a low hour / high remaining time model.
Any thoughts / info?.
A couple of the group members also have a Brantly B2B which they might br prepared to exchange (fwiw).
Any thoughts / info?.
A couple of the group members also have a Brantly B2B which they might br prepared to exchange (fwiw).
Better red than ...
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Appleby-in-Westmorland Cumbria England
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There is a 4A for sale in the UK in Helidata (not mine, just saw it).
£45 to £50K sounds about right for the B47 purchase price.
But the insurance cost! Even for private use when I looked at this last year, was almost as much for a single private user as 'club' usage on an R44.
h-r
£45 to £50K sounds about right for the B47 purchase price.
But the insurance cost! Even for private use when I looked at this last year, was almost as much for a single private user as 'club' usage on an R44.
h-r
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Mate,
Contact Mick Clancy at Heli-Muster Pty Ltd at Warnervale NSW in Oz. He will keep you right. They have more 47 bits than Bell. www.helimuster.com.au
Contact Mick Clancy at Heli-Muster Pty Ltd at Warnervale NSW in Oz. He will keep you right. They have more 47 bits than Bell. www.helimuster.com.au
Better red than ...
Join Date: Aug 2004
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For two of us it is reasonable at 2,000 per annum.
h-r
Join Date: Oct 2003
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The insurance is with RFIB (UK) Ltd, Staple Hall, 87-90 Houndsditch, London EC3A 7NP. The cost was 1,785.00 UK pounds + VAT. The helicopter is UK based at EGBJ. I assume that is enough information for you?
Chopperpilot 47
Chopperpilot 47
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Bell 47 Soloy Turbine experience anyone?
Does anyone have any pearls of wisdom WRT the Soloy turbine conversion of a Bell 47?
What does it give? Suggestions so far include improved reliability and reduced cost per hour.
Is it a waste of money?
Is anyone operating such a machine in the UK?
If one was to embark on such a project - would it be sensible to pick up a "re-build project" and go from there?
TIA
JFDI
What does it give? Suggestions so far include improved reliability and reduced cost per hour.
Is it a waste of money?
Is anyone operating such a machine in the UK?
If one was to embark on such a project - would it be sensible to pick up a "re-build project" and go from there?
TIA
JFDI
Join Date: Oct 2003
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I'm really not sure it is worth it. The speed is about the same, the load is round about the same so what advantage is there? In the UK the fuel cost is cheaper but that will probably be offset by maintenance costs. What do you intend to use it for?
Regards,
Chopperpilot 47
Regards,
Chopperpilot 47
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I suppose it all depends on what you're wanting to do with it as chopperpilot47 says.
I had several of 'em a few years back - did all long-line stuff. They performed like a small Lama - lots of power but, pretty dad-gummed slow on the straightaway. On a warm summer day - at altitude (~9000') - I was outlifting an Arizona state owned 407 and a herd of 206's.
DOC is anywhere from $150.00 on up depending on what all you (or your book keeper) want to throw against it.
When Soloy sold the conversion (STC) to Hiller way back, some parts got hard to come by and any customer service went in the crapper. I'm not sure if it's gotten any better...
...but, It's right up there with the 315's and 316's as my favorite aircraft.
I had several of 'em a few years back - did all long-line stuff. They performed like a small Lama - lots of power but, pretty dad-gummed slow on the straightaway. On a warm summer day - at altitude (~9000') - I was outlifting an Arizona state owned 407 and a herd of 206's.
DOC is anywhere from $150.00 on up depending on what all you (or your book keeper) want to throw against it.
When Soloy sold the conversion (STC) to Hiller way back, some parts got hard to come by and any customer service went in the crapper. I'm not sure if it's gotten any better...
...but, It's right up there with the 315's and 316's as my favorite aircraft.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Australia
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Bell 47 Soloy Endorsements in Australia
I have heard that, in Australia, pilots with both Bell 47G and Bell 206 endorsements can then legally fly the Soloy/Bell 47G without having to do a separate endorsement on that machine.
(This would be despite the fact that Bell 47G and Bell 47(T) are shown as separate endorsements in CAO 40.3.0 Appendix IV.)
Can anyone substantiate this?
(This would be despite the fact that Bell 47G and Bell 47(T) are shown as separate endorsements in CAO 40.3.0 Appendix IV.)
Can anyone substantiate this?
Join Date: May 2001
Location: queensland australia
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if you have flown a bell 47 and have the endorsement and have an endorsement for a bell 206 or h500 you can legally fly a 47t with no additinonal training.
look in the cao's on endorsement training.
look in the cao's on endorsement training.
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bell 47...correct throttle/correlator set up
A quick question concerning the PERFECT setup/operation of bell 47 correlator units. I realise that when adjusted correctly the twist grip is only a `fine tuning` control input with the cam linkage doing the majority of the work in sync with collective inputs.
In the 47s I have flown so far a considerable amount of throttle needed to be opened while pulling power. And like wise when decreasing power a considerable amount of throttle needed to be closed to prevent an overspeed.
My question is what throttle control inputs would generally be required in a 47 with a PERFECTLY adjusted cam correlator unit (assume ISA at sea level with 2POB). During a conversation with another guy with more time on type it was mentioned that a 47 with a correctly adjusted correlator is more like flying a R22 with the governor switched off - ie when you pull power the correlator `over compensates` requiring the pilot to limit/slightly close the throttle.......and when power is decreased the correlator `over compensates` requiring the throttle to be opened a little.
Thanks
In the 47s I have flown so far a considerable amount of throttle needed to be opened while pulling power. And like wise when decreasing power a considerable amount of throttle needed to be closed to prevent an overspeed.
My question is what throttle control inputs would generally be required in a 47 with a PERFECTLY adjusted cam correlator unit (assume ISA at sea level with 2POB). During a conversation with another guy with more time on type it was mentioned that a 47 with a correctly adjusted correlator is more like flying a R22 with the governor switched off - ie when you pull power the correlator `over compensates` requiring the pilot to limit/slightly close the throttle.......and when power is decreased the correlator `over compensates` requiring the throttle to be opened a little.
Thanks
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Same with me mate. I have flown several G-2's and all require a considerable amount of throttle application.
I was told by the A&P that the corelator on the 47's where just plain poor. Now weather that was the truth or he didn't know how adjust it, i don't know.
I was told by the A&P that the corelator on the 47's where just plain poor. Now weather that was the truth or he didn't know how adjust it, i don't know.
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The amount of help the correlator gives varies from machine to machine. I have 5 Bell 47s and they are all different. It definitely helps when you are making small adjustments by moving the collective up and down but for take off power or throttling back for landing you have to use the throttle mainly. It is not a governor.
If there is a virtue it is that you really learn how to coordinate the controls in a Bell 47 which helps when flying other machines. Our students seem to master it without too many problems. If we have an R22 pilot it is a different story. They seem to have real trouble learning how to use the throttle.
Regards,
Chopperpilot 47
If there is a virtue it is that you really learn how to coordinate the controls in a Bell 47 which helps when flying other machines. Our students seem to master it without too many problems. If we have an R22 pilot it is a different story. They seem to have real trouble learning how to use the throttle.
Regards,
Chopperpilot 47
What's a throttle? 
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After 2500 hours in the 47, I found the following applied. On the ground at take off rpm, you should be able to take off to a 5 ft hover without touching the throttle. The engineers can make adjustments so that this happens.
On moving off you need to slightly ease back on the throttle to maintain rpm, then as you apply more power, the throttle stays put, then open up slowly as more power is needed. The reverse is true when taking power off.
It is quite easy to practice this indoors, sitting on a seat, not in the 47, but be careful as it looks as if you have a bit of a limp wrist!
On moving off you need to slightly ease back on the throttle to maintain rpm, then as you apply more power, the throttle stays put, then open up slowly as more power is needed. The reverse is true when taking power off.
It is quite easy to practice this indoors, sitting on a seat, not in the 47, but be careful as it looks as if you have a bit of a limp wrist!
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when you are about to take off in a 47 with a throttle, (cam, correlator), box a small amount of positive pressure should be maintained on the throttle and a little bit more once the machine settles in the hover.
if you advance the throttle too much and back it of to maintain rpm prior to take of the rpm will always decay. try it.
this is because of the multiple connections between the throttle itself and the carbie, two uni joints, a slider, various rod ends and the cam box. lots of moving parts.
you can see the slack when the engine is running by rolling the throttle back and forth a little and seeing little to no change in the manifold pressure.
the best setup is on the early machines and the tom cat models that had a cable set up. you can raise and lower the collective as much as you like and you will maintain rpm. why they changed to the cam box has got me stuffed.
anyway the bottom line is that they are all different and you just have to get used to it.
if you advance the throttle too much and back it of to maintain rpm prior to take of the rpm will always decay. try it.
this is because of the multiple connections between the throttle itself and the carbie, two uni joints, a slider, various rod ends and the cam box. lots of moving parts.
you can see the slack when the engine is running by rolling the throttle back and forth a little and seeing little to no change in the manifold pressure.
the best setup is on the early machines and the tom cat models that had a cable set up. you can raise and lower the collective as much as you like and you will maintain rpm. why they changed to the cam box has got me stuffed.
anyway the bottom line is that they are all different and you just have to get used to it.
