Bell 429
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
429 delivery position
Our corporate flight dept. is looking for a 429
. We are already negotiating with Bell, but knowing the history of the aircraft, I thought there may be someone out there with a delivery position that they aren't interested in.
If anyone has one (or a lead), please PM me.
Thanks.
. We are already negotiating with Bell, but knowing the history of the aircraft, I thought there may be someone out there with a delivery position that they aren't interested in.If anyone has one (or a lead), please PM me.
Thanks.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: ...in view of the 'Southern Cross' ...
Posts: 1,383
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mmmm ...
Not flown in one yet ... BUT ... I got to climb all over one in Riyadh last year as it was flown through the M/E on a Demo tour ...
Looks Ok .... apparently quite a good performer according to the demo pilot ...
but then they always tend to be OTT with their evaluations ... so I guess time and operational experience will tell ....
Not flown in one yet ... BUT ... I got to climb all over one in Riyadh last year as it was flown through the M/E on a Demo tour ...
Looks Ok .... apparently quite a good performer according to the demo pilot ...
but then they always tend to be OTT with their evaluations ... so I guess time and operational experience will tell ....
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: china
Age: 61
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
we are going to buy a new bell 429, the bell sales broker recommend spares and tools vaule above usd1.1M, we are green hand for it, is there any big guy can help me to figure out, mail :[email protected]; I wii give detailed spares and tools list.
Raytheon to provide Bell 429 for RAN aircrew training
Yesterday, Raytheon Australia has contract to provide 3 x Bell 429 from 2012 as interim trainer to the RAN, replacing the AW109E Power in 823 Squadron.
First for the 429 in terms of training and first for military based role
First for the 429 in terms of training and first for military based role
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
429 - another failure?
It is quite surprising that the 429 was selected, and given its immaturity, rather risky; as a training machine it may have some value, in the same way as the good old 47 was useful as a training machine, but as a mission machine it is competing against much more capable machines.
Our organisation carried out an in-depth and comprehensive evaluation of the 429 over a lengthy period, and came to the conclusion that the 429 is still very much a ‘work in progress’, more influenced by accountants than impassioned engineers, and this was very disappointing, considering Bell’s hype.
Performance wise it is surprisingly slow with very heavy fuel consumption; at around 7000lbs down to about 6400lbs, it is achieving only 125kts at max continuous AEO power on FLI, at an average fuel burn of 600lbs/hour over a period of 90 minutes. This was at altitudes between 2500’ and 4000’ and ambient temperatures 25C to 20C.
The noise in the passenger cabin is reminiscent of the S61! A deafening gearbox howl and annoying airstream white noise. Above about 90kts the right hand door/window begins banging from the advancing blade pressure wave, and at 125 kts it’s pretty much like sitting next to a pneumatic road drill. Right hand cabin window percussion amplitudes being measured in centimeters! Quite frightening for pilots, never mind passengers.
On a positive note, the cabin and baggage area is roomy for a light twin, but is undoubtedly why the 429 is so slow and thirsty. The build quality is quite poor when compared with other types and the cabin seats are not easy to remove and refit.
Generally, apart from the cacophony going on in the passenger cabin above 90kts, the rotor vibration levels are quite good in the hover, through translation and at cruise speeds. It also handles quite well AP in and AP out, indeed AP out it is more stable than its older sister.
The EFIS system is rather dated, and not at all intuitive, the coupled functions are basic, and there are no warnings if, for example, the aircraft deviates from a selected altitude. Of concern is the use of Rogerson Kratos displays, which have established a fairly solid reputation for unreliability, and have been rejected by other helicopter OEM’s. None of the latest situational awareness avionics are available on the 429, only basic equipment, and again this is disappointing.
On the ground, 4 sets of wheels are necessary to ground handle the 429, and fitting these and manoeuvring the heli is both time consuming, potentially dangerous to feet, and challenging. The requirement to put webbing straps around the front and rear of the skids to prevent them splaying out is something you might expect of a home built, and rather ignominious for a manufacturer that once had a proud reputation as a helicopter builder. Carrying around scaffolding is bad enough but when it is not strong enough for ground handling, why not just fit wheels?
The tail rotor pitch linkage is almost Victorian in its mechanical design, and the length of the pitch links looks vulnerable and lacking in durability.
Note too that the main rotor flies in 2 distinct planes similar to the 412 and people will be familiar with the idiosyncrasies of tracking and balancing the 412.
Bell support is no longer like it was in the old days, now it is slow, indecisive and disinterested. Which is unfortunate, because the unreliability of their machines demands better support. Failures of the DAU and Rogerson Kratos displays are particularly common and Bell’s severe lack of distributed spares holding is particularly troublesome.
It is understandable that buyers are steering clear of the Bell 429 in favour of far superior machines from their competition.
Bell, at the small helicopter end of its portfolio, now appears to be directed not by engineers, technocrats or experienced aviators with design authority, in touch with the needs of the market place, but by accountants, whether internally or from Textron, and you will not find the passion for flying, design excellence, advancement, or engineering know-how that exists within their more capable competition.
Our organisation carried out an in-depth and comprehensive evaluation of the 429 over a lengthy period, and came to the conclusion that the 429 is still very much a ‘work in progress’, more influenced by accountants than impassioned engineers, and this was very disappointing, considering Bell’s hype.
Performance wise it is surprisingly slow with very heavy fuel consumption; at around 7000lbs down to about 6400lbs, it is achieving only 125kts at max continuous AEO power on FLI, at an average fuel burn of 600lbs/hour over a period of 90 minutes. This was at altitudes between 2500’ and 4000’ and ambient temperatures 25C to 20C.
The noise in the passenger cabin is reminiscent of the S61! A deafening gearbox howl and annoying airstream white noise. Above about 90kts the right hand door/window begins banging from the advancing blade pressure wave, and at 125 kts it’s pretty much like sitting next to a pneumatic road drill. Right hand cabin window percussion amplitudes being measured in centimeters! Quite frightening for pilots, never mind passengers.
On a positive note, the cabin and baggage area is roomy for a light twin, but is undoubtedly why the 429 is so slow and thirsty. The build quality is quite poor when compared with other types and the cabin seats are not easy to remove and refit.
Generally, apart from the cacophony going on in the passenger cabin above 90kts, the rotor vibration levels are quite good in the hover, through translation and at cruise speeds. It also handles quite well AP in and AP out, indeed AP out it is more stable than its older sister.
The EFIS system is rather dated, and not at all intuitive, the coupled functions are basic, and there are no warnings if, for example, the aircraft deviates from a selected altitude. Of concern is the use of Rogerson Kratos displays, which have established a fairly solid reputation for unreliability, and have been rejected by other helicopter OEM’s. None of the latest situational awareness avionics are available on the 429, only basic equipment, and again this is disappointing.
On the ground, 4 sets of wheels are necessary to ground handle the 429, and fitting these and manoeuvring the heli is both time consuming, potentially dangerous to feet, and challenging. The requirement to put webbing straps around the front and rear of the skids to prevent them splaying out is something you might expect of a home built, and rather ignominious for a manufacturer that once had a proud reputation as a helicopter builder. Carrying around scaffolding is bad enough but when it is not strong enough for ground handling, why not just fit wheels?
The tail rotor pitch linkage is almost Victorian in its mechanical design, and the length of the pitch links looks vulnerable and lacking in durability.
Note too that the main rotor flies in 2 distinct planes similar to the 412 and people will be familiar with the idiosyncrasies of tracking and balancing the 412.
Bell support is no longer like it was in the old days, now it is slow, indecisive and disinterested. Which is unfortunate, because the unreliability of their machines demands better support. Failures of the DAU and Rogerson Kratos displays are particularly common and Bell’s severe lack of distributed spares holding is particularly troublesome.
It is understandable that buyers are steering clear of the Bell 429 in favour of far superior machines from their competition.
Bell, at the small helicopter end of its portfolio, now appears to be directed not by engineers, technocrats or experienced aviators with design authority, in touch with the needs of the market place, but by accountants, whether internally or from Textron, and you will not find the passion for flying, design excellence, advancement, or engineering know-how that exists within their more capable competition.
Our corporate flight dept. is looking for a 429. We are already negotiating with Bell, but knowing the history of the aircraft, I thought there may be someone out there with a delivery position that they aren't interested in.
knowing the "history" of the aircraft....why would you want one of the darn things?
Surely....for the money...there are far better choices out there!
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: All over the place
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Our organisation carried out an in-depth and comprehensive evaluation of the 429 over a lengthy period, and came to the conclusion that the 429 is still very much a ‘work in progress’, more influenced by accountants than impassioned engineers, and this was very disappointing, considering Bell’s hype.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oz
Posts: 644
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just to clarify....
The RAN DIDN'T select the 429 for RMI.
Raytheon had the previous RMI contract with the A109E and got a three year extension. The spec basically calls for a helo in that class, but it was Raytheon's decision to bring the 429 in rather than extend the 109s, or go with something else such as the Ec135 or even the GrandNew.
The fact that Raytheon has teamed with Bell and Hawker Pacific to pitch the 429 for HATS may or may not be purely coincidental - maybe they'll work some of the bugs out of the "work in progress" in time for the HATS RFT.
The RAN DIDN'T select the 429 for RMI.
Raytheon had the previous RMI contract with the A109E and got a three year extension. The spec basically calls for a helo in that class, but it was Raytheon's decision to bring the 429 in rather than extend the 109s, or go with something else such as the Ec135 or even the GrandNew.
The fact that Raytheon has teamed with Bell and Hawker Pacific to pitch the 429 for HATS may or may not be purely coincidental - maybe they'll work some of the bugs out of the "work in progress" in time for the HATS RFT.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For a bit more balanced perspective:Rotor & Wing Magazine :: The Bell 429: A New Hope
No mention of "frightening" noises, "Victorian" and "vulnerable" pitch change links, "home built" design or other such nonsense.
Up front, Bell rejected analog instruments and installed a single-pilot IFR-certified glass cockpit in a low panel that doesn’t obstruct the pilot’s field of view. Digital information includes IGO, OGE and Cat-A profiles, weight and balance calculations, exceedance monitoring and a primary limit indicator; a specific spot on the primary multi-function display that shows whichever engine or rotor parameter is closest to being exceeded at any given time
En route back to Paris, I pushed C-FTNB into a 130-KIAS sprint across the French countryside in search of any unwanted cabin noise from ill-fitting doors or windows. None was detected. Meanwhile, the aircraft continued to handle smoothly with no unpleasant sensations.
Track-mounted seats allows cabin seating to be reconfigured or removed in minutes for maximum utility
All-in-all, the Bell 429 is a good aircraft. It flies well — not great, not remarkable — but well. It is, however, comfortable, has plenty of power and it even looks fairly nice.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: FBO
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote:
Our organisation carried out an in-depth and comprehensive evaluation of the 429 over a lengthy period, and came to the conclusion that the 429 is still very much a ‘work in progress’, more influenced by accountants than impassioned engineers, and this was very disappointing, considering Bell’s hype.
Our organisation carried out an in-depth and comprehensive evaluation of the 429 over a lengthy period, and came to the conclusion that the 429 is still very much a ‘work in progress’, more influenced by accountants than impassioned engineers, and this was very disappointing, considering Bell’s hype.
Care to specify which organization it is you are working for?
If one wishes to be invited back to the factory in the future....well...one should not pee in your own Cornflakes!
That and I suppose the risk of losing advertising revenue would never enter into an editorial decision in a trade magazine.
That and I suppose the risk of losing advertising revenue would never enter into an editorial decision in a trade magazine.
I guess I am wasting my time reading any publication, then, since nobody shows such pure virtues of altruism to publish editorials on their own dime not supported by advertising revenue.
Doubtful Bell got their money's worth with statements like "not great, not remarkable"...perhaps they have to save up to shill other articles?
Bell's 429 Turns the Corner
Doubtful Bell got their money's worth with statements like "not great, not remarkable"...perhaps they have to save up to shill other articles?
Bell's 429 Turns the Corner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Philadelphia PA
Age: 73
Posts: 1,835
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Bell 429 Certified to 7,500 pounds
Bell has evidently just issued a press release indicating they have received approval from Transport Canada for an increased maximum gross weight of 7,500 pounds.
That should help sales!
That should help sales!
There is a hint in the press release that suggests that even they may not be expecting a smooth ride over this latest weight growth.
They are in receipt of Transport Canada approval for a 500 lbs. weight increase to 7,500 lbs [3,400kg] in order to meet calls from customers and potential customers to overcome the high empty weight of the model and this is an answer to those requests.
The release points out that the additional gross weight now permits operators to equip the Bell 429 with additional options including Helicopter Terrain Awareness Warning System (HTAWS), a radar altimeter, cockpit voice/flight data recorder and strobe lights........ although it does [or can] translate to greater range and loiter times.
"With Transport Canada’s approval now in hand, Bell Helicopter will formally petition the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) for concurrence with Transport Canada on a 500 lbs. exemption to Part 27 with respect to the 7,000 lbs. maximum gross weight limit."
The new weight limit blows a major hole in the ceiling of the provisions of JAR27 and at 3400kg places the airframe in JAR29 territory. The Bell 429 then is more an alternative to the EC145 rather than the 3000kg AW109/MD902 and EC135 market sector it was launched into.
Will EASA be kind?
They are in receipt of Transport Canada approval for a 500 lbs. weight increase to 7,500 lbs [3,400kg] in order to meet calls from customers and potential customers to overcome the high empty weight of the model and this is an answer to those requests.
The release points out that the additional gross weight now permits operators to equip the Bell 429 with additional options including Helicopter Terrain Awareness Warning System (HTAWS), a radar altimeter, cockpit voice/flight data recorder and strobe lights........ although it does [or can] translate to greater range and loiter times.
"With Transport Canada’s approval now in hand, Bell Helicopter will formally petition the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) for concurrence with Transport Canada on a 500 lbs. exemption to Part 27 with respect to the 7,000 lbs. maximum gross weight limit."
The new weight limit blows a major hole in the ceiling of the provisions of JAR27 and at 3400kg places the airframe in JAR29 territory. The Bell 429 then is more an alternative to the EC145 rather than the 3000kg AW109/MD902 and EC135 market sector it was launched into.
Will EASA be kind?
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Philadelphia PA
Age: 73
Posts: 1,835
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Transport Canada is the original provider of the type certification. There are bilateral agreements with EASA and the FAA that should (and I stress should) mean that they accept this new certification.
At least it's an admission that the thing was too heavy in the first place!
When seeing the machine for the first time and being told it was a Part 27 aircraft I couldn't help wondering
if Bell had reinvented basic physics or the thing was built from unobtainium.
Makes you wonder if it was always designed with the max weight increase as a given.
It also raises the question of why it would not be able to comply with Part 29 anyway.
As far as I am aware the only method of getting an "exemption" from the TC requirements is an STC unless you change the TC requirements or get gravity adjusted.
The "spin" in the release is priceless on its own. Even SC nearly has the "Bell" goggles on!
When seeing the machine for the first time and being told it was a Part 27 aircraft I couldn't help wondering
if Bell had reinvented basic physics or the thing was built from unobtainium.
Makes you wonder if it was always designed with the max weight increase as a given.
It also raises the question of why it would not be able to comply with Part 29 anyway.
As far as I am aware the only method of getting an "exemption" from the TC requirements is an STC unless you change the TC requirements or get gravity adjusted.
The "spin" in the release is priceless on its own. Even SC nearly has the "Bell" goggles on!
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Middle East
Age: 69
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is odd that we have people flying in a 429 every day and nobody has reported any 'cacophony' above 90 knots. The owner has been happy with the noise level in the rear. Jesusnutt, are you sure your evaluation team actually flew one?
The extra 500 lbs will be a welcome addition as soon as the FAA accepts it. I never felt that it had a weight problem before, but extra weight allowance is always welcome.
The extra 500 lbs will be a welcome addition as soon as the FAA accepts it. I never felt that it had a weight problem before, but extra weight allowance is always welcome.