Bell 407
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: 1 Dunghill Mansions, Putney
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US Army picks 407 to replace OH-58D
407ARH selected as the Kiowa Warrior replacement. 368 a/c, for FUE Q4 FY-08.
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Bell Helicopter Textron, Inc., of Fort Worth, Texas, was awarded July 29, 2005, a $210,746,761 cost-plus-incentive-fee contract for the system development and demonstration of the Armed Reconnaissance Helicopter, including sub-system integration and testing as well as training-device development. The ARH will replace the OH-58D Kiowa Warrior Helicopter (first fielded in 1985) and will be a dual crew station, single-pilot-operable aircraft capable of operating worldwide. Work will be performed at Fort Worth, Texas, and is estimated to be completed on Sept. 30, 2008. There were 11 bids solicited on Dec. 8, 2004, and two bids were received. The U.S. Army Aviation and Missile Command at Redstone Arsenal, Ala., is the contracting activity. Their public affairs office can be reached at (256) 955-9174. (W58RGZ-05-C-0234)
DoD 7/29/05
..........
Bell Helicopter Textron, Inc., of Fort Worth, Texas, was awarded July 29, 2005, a $210,746,761 cost-plus-incentive-fee contract for the system development and demonstration of the Armed Reconnaissance Helicopter, including sub-system integration and testing as well as training-device development. The ARH will replace the OH-58D Kiowa Warrior Helicopter (first fielded in 1985) and will be a dual crew station, single-pilot-operable aircraft capable of operating worldwide. Work will be performed at Fort Worth, Texas, and is estimated to be completed on Sept. 30, 2008. There were 11 bids solicited on Dec. 8, 2004, and two bids were received. The U.S. Army Aviation and Missile Command at Redstone Arsenal, Ala., is the contracting activity. Their public affairs office can be reached at (256) 955-9174. (W58RGZ-05-C-0234)
DoD 7/29/05
LOL
Now that's progress!
It's a sad day when the Army has to take a Super Jet Ranger off the shelf than a newly designed helicopter to do exactly what they need to do. And a zero time 210 is really a step back.
212man....seen the numbers on the 210?
Read the list of improvements over the 205A-1?
Remember the commonality of parts...212 bits that will be used?
The 210 will be a very hot ticket for utility helicopter operators....and 212's will go away (in the US anyway).
There will always be "Killer Eggs"....407's will not fit into the places the SpecOps guys need to go.
Read the list of improvements over the 205A-1?
Remember the commonality of parts...212 bits that will be used?
The 210 will be a very hot ticket for utility helicopter operators....and 212's will go away (in the US anyway).
There will always be "Killer Eggs"....407's will not fit into the places the SpecOps guys need to go.
SaSless
Tell me how a clapped out, multi 1,000s of hours UH-1H airframe is magically turned into a zero time brand new 210. Then they take a 703 and with nothing more than a records check turn it into a -17.
Does this mean what the Restricted perators have maintained all along, the Huey and the 205 are the same aircraft?
Check the useful load of a UH-1H 703 and the 210. In the charts we look at the UH-1H still out lifts the 210 for a few million dollars less. Especially if you throw the composit blades on.
Will Bell EVER build another totally new helicopter??
Tell me how a clapped out, multi 1,000s of hours UH-1H airframe is magically turned into a zero time brand new 210. Then they take a 703 and with nothing more than a records check turn it into a -17.
Does this mean what the Restricted perators have maintained all along, the Huey and the 205 are the same aircraft?
Check the useful load of a UH-1H 703 and the 210. In the charts we look at the UH-1H still out lifts the 210 for a few million dollars less. Especially if you throw the composit blades on.
Will Bell EVER build another totally new helicopter??
Sikorsky, MBB, and Boeing-Vertol fan here. Bell's are fun to fly in vibrant way....and yes...Bell might one day build a new aircraft....but it certainly will not be for the US Army.
I have always found it interesting to find that Bell can take the same Restricted Catagory Huey airframe and turn it into a 210 but the rest of us cannot take the same airframe and turn it into a Standard Catagory aircraft. Go Figger?
I have always found it interesting to find that Bell can take the same Restricted Catagory Huey airframe and turn it into a 210 but the rest of us cannot take the same airframe and turn it into a Standard Catagory aircraft. Go Figger?
407 engine/transmission ?
Long story for maybe a short question:
(Bell 407)
During preflight I found the upper deck was covered in fluid and the transmission fluid level in the sight gage was maxed. The aircraft had just returned from a one hour flight, the off going pilot said he had not noticed anything unusal.
I called the on call mechanic and he said he serviced the transmission fluid with what he indicated (said, failed to write it up) with one pint of fluid. It was nothing major and would vent out to the level the transmission needed.
Cleaned up the mess and did a ten minute runup to ease my mind, and nothing seemed to be leaking.
Next flight same thing, messed up deck and maxed out fluid level.
Transmission pressure fluxuates at the low end of the green arc (2 light bars, chickets) but in the green.
Engine oil pressue at the top of the green arc. Fluid level lower then on preflight but only slightly.
This am the mechanic sivened of some fluid to get the transmission sight gage level mid range.
So the question came up in discussion:
If the oiler cooler had an internal leak allowing the engine oil to seep into the transmission, would you see and indication on the pressure instruments?
The mechanic assures me in this case he overfilled the transmission but said the second option could be a bad seal.
(Bell 407)
During preflight I found the upper deck was covered in fluid and the transmission fluid level in the sight gage was maxed. The aircraft had just returned from a one hour flight, the off going pilot said he had not noticed anything unusal.
I called the on call mechanic and he said he serviced the transmission fluid with what he indicated (said, failed to write it up) with one pint of fluid. It was nothing major and would vent out to the level the transmission needed.
Cleaned up the mess and did a ten minute runup to ease my mind, and nothing seemed to be leaking.
Next flight same thing, messed up deck and maxed out fluid level.
Transmission pressure fluxuates at the low end of the green arc (2 light bars, chickets) but in the green.
Engine oil pressue at the top of the green arc. Fluid level lower then on preflight but only slightly.
This am the mechanic sivened of some fluid to get the transmission sight gage level mid range.
So the question came up in discussion:
If the oiler cooler had an internal leak allowing the engine oil to seep into the transmission, would you see and indication on the pressure instruments?
The mechanic assures me in this case he overfilled the transmission but said the second option could be a bad seal.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: T.B.A.
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Overfill or transfer...
We had the same problem with our Bell 407's.
Overfilling the main txmn will lead to oil being vented out the pressure release valve on the txmn housing.
We leave our levels just below the yellow line (normal min mark) and above the bottom screws. This level seems to prevent the venting of txmn oil. If overfilled, it will vent till it finds its own "comfortable" level, it’s just messy! High or low skids don’t make a difference in the txmn levels. Then very important to check for correct levels 20 minutes after shut down when the oil is still warm.
BUT NOTE: The transfer we experienced was from the main txmn to the engine. I am not sure if it will transfer from the engine to the main txmn. Apparently it won’t happen, but I stand corrected.
If you have a transfer problem where the oil transfers past the damaged/old labyrinth seals on the drive shaft at the free wheel unit, there is no indication in the cockpit on the engine or txmn temperature gauges when transfer occurs from the txmn to the engine during a normal flight, if it hasn't been an extended flight, in my experience. That is as I said transfer from the txmn to the engine.
The only indications will be on the after flight. There will be excessive oil in the oil tank, visually visible through the engine oil level sight glass. If you open the engine oil cap, oil will come bubbling out the now very full oil tank, causing another fine mess. You will also notice a drop or slight drop in the main txmn oil level sight glass, depending on flight duration and severity of the leak rate.
Apparently there is no limit to the rate of transfer according to our engineers, as long as the txmn levels stay in limits. The seal must however be changed as soon as possible as 555 in the engine oil system is not ideal, as it hasn't got the same properties for cooling and lubrication as with 560. It also has to do with the fact that 555 don’t have the same high temperature performance as the 560, even though they are both synthetic oils.
You are worried about an internal leak. The chance of an internal leak is very remote, if not impossible.
Hope it helped. Overfill seems more likely to be your problem. Good luck.
Overfilling the main txmn will lead to oil being vented out the pressure release valve on the txmn housing.
We leave our levels just below the yellow line (normal min mark) and above the bottom screws. This level seems to prevent the venting of txmn oil. If overfilled, it will vent till it finds its own "comfortable" level, it’s just messy! High or low skids don’t make a difference in the txmn levels. Then very important to check for correct levels 20 minutes after shut down when the oil is still warm.
BUT NOTE: The transfer we experienced was from the main txmn to the engine. I am not sure if it will transfer from the engine to the main txmn. Apparently it won’t happen, but I stand corrected.
If you have a transfer problem where the oil transfers past the damaged/old labyrinth seals on the drive shaft at the free wheel unit, there is no indication in the cockpit on the engine or txmn temperature gauges when transfer occurs from the txmn to the engine during a normal flight, if it hasn't been an extended flight, in my experience. That is as I said transfer from the txmn to the engine.
The only indications will be on the after flight. There will be excessive oil in the oil tank, visually visible through the engine oil level sight glass. If you open the engine oil cap, oil will come bubbling out the now very full oil tank, causing another fine mess. You will also notice a drop or slight drop in the main txmn oil level sight glass, depending on flight duration and severity of the leak rate.
Apparently there is no limit to the rate of transfer according to our engineers, as long as the txmn levels stay in limits. The seal must however be changed as soon as possible as 555 in the engine oil system is not ideal, as it hasn't got the same properties for cooling and lubrication as with 560. It also has to do with the fact that 555 don’t have the same high temperature performance as the 560, even though they are both synthetic oils.
You are worried about an internal leak. The chance of an internal leak is very remote, if not impossible.
Hope it helped. Overfill seems more likely to be your problem. Good luck.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Germany
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Bell 407 Paperwork
Ladies and Gents,
I just did a major revision on our 407 handbooks and had to find out that the former holder of the aircraft didn't care too much about conducting revision service on them. Most of the missing items I was able to find on Bell's webside but a few items are still missing. Can anybody please help me out with...
==> actual 407 OSN Index (ours is dated March 04)
==> II - 9 (reissue 09-06-01)
==> II - 32
==> MMS - Revision 1
==> CR & O TR-407-1 Rev. 2 (03/09/04)
==> MM-05 (missing, I guess he misread the cancellation of the supplement and deleted the entire chapter)
==> MM-13 title REV 15
==> MM chapter 98 page 3/4 Rev 4
==> MM Rev. 16
and maybe the very first GEN OSNs # 1 -31
Thanks a lot,
Spunk
I just did a major revision on our 407 handbooks and had to find out that the former holder of the aircraft didn't care too much about conducting revision service on them. Most of the missing items I was able to find on Bell's webside but a few items are still missing. Can anybody please help me out with...
==> actual 407 OSN Index (ours is dated March 04)
==> II - 9 (reissue 09-06-01)
==> II - 32
==> MMS - Revision 1
==> CR & O TR-407-1 Rev. 2 (03/09/04)
==> MM-05 (missing, I guess he misread the cancellation of the supplement and deleted the entire chapter)
==> MM-13 title REV 15
==> MM chapter 98 page 3/4 Rev 4
==> MM Rev. 16
and maybe the very first GEN OSNs # 1 -31
Thanks a lot,
Spunk
Last edited by Spunk; 21st Oct 2005 at 08:17.
Bell 407 question
Our mech replaced a Garlock seal on the starter generator. This required a run up for leak check and then a 10 min flight.
I understand the leak check but the mech could not explain why the 10 min flight. All he said was a there is a load difference.
Anyone with any insight?
I understand the leak check but the mech could not explain why the 10 min flight. All he said was a there is a load difference.
Anyone with any insight?
