Sussex Police Helicopter Bird Strike
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
skycop;
True to your word I see,
Are you sure about the 'around midnight' part, as you are so accurate with your height! 
I wont argue the AGL/ASL bit!!
As for your exploits in Belize, having done that same trip countless times in a Gazelle, we realised the dangers of low flying out there before we attempted anything silly like a low level 100NM transit trip for no tactical reason!
The thought of a 'Toucan strike' tends to put the wary aviator in his place!
In Hong Kong, the Scout tended to scare anything else out of the skies!!
Brunei, 89, I was in the back of a Scout, carrying out winch man duties, sat on the floor with my feet on skids when I had a birdstrike on my left leg during a transit. Now that did smart a bit!
Mrs Sid says she remembers that she had to wash my trousers a few times to get the stains out. Both the blood and other bodily fluids!!
(What was that earlier about pi$$ing matches?)
As for lamps, any flight around Strensham or indeed out of my protective ATC zone! In particular pursuits up/down the Motorways! But mainly for the attention of other aircraft.
SS
Some years back I had a heavy birdstrike at around midnight, over the sea at 500',
I have never had a birdstrike while flying above 500 feet agl.
I wont argue the AGL/ASL bit!!
As for your exploits in Belize, having done that same trip countless times in a Gazelle, we realised the dangers of low flying out there before we attempted anything silly like a low level 100NM transit trip for no tactical reason!
The thought of a 'Toucan strike' tends to put the wary aviator in his place!
In Hong Kong, the Scout tended to scare anything else out of the skies!!
Brunei, 89, I was in the back of a Scout, carrying out winch man duties, sat on the floor with my feet on skids when I had a birdstrike on my left leg during a transit. Now that did smart a bit!
Mrs Sid says she remembers that she had to wash my trousers a few times to get the stains out. Both the blood and other bodily fluids!!
(What was that earlier about pi$$ing matches?)
As for lamps, any flight around Strensham or indeed out of my protective ATC zone! In particular pursuits up/down the Motorways! But mainly for the attention of other aircraft.
SS
You get a light for free on the front of your helo - use it all the time, why don't you?
Isn't the price of a burnt out bulb 2 to 3 times a year worth it?
I have been flying in and around the hills and cliffs here for 11 years and (touch wood) never had a bird strike. Atleast half of that time I've been 'low level' trying to keep out of the way of bigger metal birds!
I've gleaned the following:
Birds definitely 'see' my lights - they abruptly manouevre well before I'm in their airspace.
Kestrels and Buzzards in particular will NOT move for you!
Anywhere a thermal is formed, you can guarantee there will be birds (well in excess of 'low level').
Cliffs are a magnet to birdies.
Most birds fold their wings and dive to avoid you.
Swans fly at 25,000
Isn't the price of a burnt out bulb 2 to 3 times a year worth it?
I have been flying in and around the hills and cliffs here for 11 years and (touch wood) never had a bird strike. Atleast half of that time I've been 'low level' trying to keep out of the way of bigger metal birds!
I've gleaned the following:
Birds definitely 'see' my lights - they abruptly manouevre well before I'm in their airspace.
Kestrels and Buzzards in particular will NOT move for you!
Anywhere a thermal is formed, you can guarantee there will be birds (well in excess of 'low level').
Cliffs are a magnet to birdies.
Most birds fold their wings and dive to avoid you.
Swans fly at 25,000
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Nice one TC.
I for one wasn't aware that lamps were effective 'bird scarers'. Judging by the amount of activity at this time of year, perhaps it's something that warrants more consideration.
A quick google search came up with;
"COLLISION WITH AIRBORNE OBJECT - although it is not always possible to avoid a birdstrike, balloon/kite strike, etc., training techniques in-flight and in a simulator can teach the pilot how to react when a collision is imminent to avoid a catastrophic accident. The U .S. Navy has demonstrated that simply turning on a landing light when a high concentration of birds is encountered will greatly reduce the chances of a bird strike. Many other techniques can be employed and must be taught to new pilots. "
Like you say, a burnt out bulb is better than a replacement screen.
SS
I for one wasn't aware that lamps were effective 'bird scarers'. Judging by the amount of activity at this time of year, perhaps it's something that warrants more consideration.
A quick google search came up with;
"COLLISION WITH AIRBORNE OBJECT - although it is not always possible to avoid a birdstrike, balloon/kite strike, etc., training techniques in-flight and in a simulator can teach the pilot how to react when a collision is imminent to avoid a catastrophic accident. The U .S. Navy has demonstrated that simply turning on a landing light when a high concentration of birds is encountered will greatly reduce the chances of a bird strike. Many other techniques can be employed and must be taught to new pilots. "
Like you say, a burnt out bulb is better than a replacement screen.
SS
The landing light can also help avoid birdstrikes of the large aluminium kind; always a bonus!
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SS,
You asked "Are you sure about the 'around midnight' part, as you are so accurate with your height! I wont argue the AGL/ASL bit!!"
The height bit was easy, as of course you might remember from your HK days, the standard ATC clearance inside the Kai Tak zone was "not above 500 feet amsl".
You also stated: I for one wasn't aware that lamps were effective 'bird scarers'. Judging by the amount of activity at this time of year, perhaps it's something that warrants more consideration."
I'm amazed that you have flown many military hours at low level but never heard that forward facing lights are a bird deterrent! It was standard UK military low flying policy, and probably still is, for this very reason.
No wonder you've always thought that birdstrikes are merely a matter of luck...!
You asked "Are you sure about the 'around midnight' part, as you are so accurate with your height! I wont argue the AGL/ASL bit!!"
The height bit was easy, as of course you might remember from your HK days, the standard ATC clearance inside the Kai Tak zone was "not above 500 feet amsl".
You also stated: I for one wasn't aware that lamps were effective 'bird scarers'. Judging by the amount of activity at this time of year, perhaps it's something that warrants more consideration."
I'm amazed that you have flown many military hours at low level but never heard that forward facing lights are a bird deterrent! It was standard UK military low flying policy, and probably still is, for this very reason.
No wonder you've always thought that birdstrikes are merely a matter of luck...!
Bird strikes at night? We were at a hover over a rural area doing a search one dark night at about 1000', when on the thermal we see a standard V formation of geese(about 30-40) going underneath us! 
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Its like getting skycop to put his fingers in a terrapin pool with all these little nips!!
The height bit was easy, as of course you might remember from your HK days, the standard ATC clearance inside the Kai Tak zone was "not above 500 feet amsl".
Two are the 50,000 HKLFC (sheet 1 west / sheet 2 east)
And the other is the 100,000 HKLFC
I am willing to be corrected of course, but heights within the KAI TAK zone were 'AAL'.
All other areas, such as ISLAND, PLOVER COVE, LANTAU, CHEUNG CHAU, JUBILEE, INNER PORT SHELTER and even SEK KONG ATZ , were related to by 'AMSL'.
If the standard clearance was in the zone was "not above 500ft AMSL", as skycop says, how on earth do you manage entry from NORTH PASS or EAST PASS when their heights are given as 1500ft AMSL for entry?
I'm amazed that you have flown many military hours at low level but never heard that forward facing lights are a bird deterrent! It was standard UK military low flying policy, and probably still is, for this very reason.
I can say that I don't recall this being mentioned at all in reference to birds. I hadn't thought of it as a bird deterrent.
As for it still being policy, living not far from the A1, it would seem that the word hasn't got round to the Chinook, Lynx, Gazelle, Apache, Puma world about this "standard UK military low flying policy".
And as for the Tucanos, Harriers, Tornados and the odd Jaguar, the word still has quite a way to go round!!
Lights on, lights on, GO!
SS
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
'Normal' Low level checks;
'FREDAH' +VL
Fuel, Radio, Engine, DI, Altitude, Harness, Visors, Lookout.
perhaps 'FREDAHVLL'?
'FREDAH' +VL
Fuel, Radio, Engine, DI, Altitude, Harness, Visors, Lookout.
perhaps 'FREDAHVLL'?
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Yawn!
Well done Sid, you've finally won the PPOTY Award for 2005.
It was not above 500 amsl as we were over the sea coming back from the south west via Green Island.
The prize is a bottle of shampoo - the sort that fixes split ends, which I'm sure you'll find very useful. If you'd only got second, you would have got the case of eggs to suck.
p.s. Wrong country for little nips - that's a bit further NE.
Well done Sid, you've finally won the PPOTY Award for 2005.
It was not above 500 amsl as we were over the sea coming back from the south west via Green Island.
The prize is a bottle of shampoo - the sort that fixes split ends, which I'm sure you'll find very useful. If you'd only got second, you would have got the case of eggs to suck.
p.s. Wrong country for little nips - that's a bit further NE.
Last edited by Skycop; 31st May 2005 at 22:49.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Thanks for the award skycop. Of course there are others I would like to thank.....etc
Which , if I may I point out, is not within the Kai Tak Zone. Green Island was 'AT' 500ft, as was 'West Pass' and 'Tsin Yi'. Of course you'll remember the noticable exception was 'Lei Yue Mun Crossing' at 300ft.
So let me get this straight. You were at 500ft AMSL passing Green Island. In the Kai Tak Zone you would have had to adjust to 500ft AAL in order to comply with ATC instructions.
You had your birdstrike within the zone.
Kai Taks elevation is/was 28ft. Therefore you had your birdstrike at 528ft AMSL.
But one above 500ft AMSL !
Off to get some conditioner to go with my prize.
SS
It was not above 500 amsl as we were over the sea coming back from the south west via Green Island.
So let me get this straight. You were at 500ft AMSL passing Green Island. In the Kai Tak Zone you would have had to adjust to 500ft AAL in order to comply with ATC instructions.
You had your birdstrike within the zone.
Kai Taks elevation is/was 28ft. Therefore you had your birdstrike at 528ft AMSL.
I have never had a birdstrike while flying above 500 feet agl.
Off to get some conditioner to go with my prize.
SS
Avoid imitations
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Better get a couple of bottles as I never said I had reached Green Island... 
SO, having cleared SS's distracting aside and reaching way back to the original incident - Why does Shoreham have a rejoin procedure that requires a helicopter to be below 500' agl outside the ATZ?
SO, having cleared SS's distracting aside and reaching way back to the original incident - Why does Shoreham have a rejoin procedure that requires a helicopter to be below 500' agl outside the ATZ?
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IIRC the Shawbury/CFS teaching of low level checks has changed a number of times since Bertie's time.
I stand by to be corrected but I believe it is now HOVL -
Height - including authorised minima and radalt bug setting
Obstructions - including lookout and crew arcs of responsibility
Visors - Down
Landing Lamp - on
I have to also agree with SS that I do not remember being told that the landing light was part of the checks as a bird deterrent rather than for conspicuity for other low flying aircraft - makes sense though.
I stand by to be corrected but I believe it is now HOVL -
Height - including authorised minima and radalt bug setting
Obstructions - including lookout and crew arcs of responsibility
Visors - Down
Landing Lamp - on
I have to also agree with SS that I do not remember being told that the landing light was part of the checks as a bird deterrent rather than for conspicuity for other low flying aircraft - makes sense though.
Some thoughts
I've been doing work on a project involving FW operations and birdstrikes at aerodromes. Some figures may be of interest here to the rotary comunity. Due to dealing with FW ops I looked at arrival and departure stats, to determine trends etc and note that the research was based around FW related operations.
69% of all departure strikes happened at or below 250ft AGL
59% of all arrival strikes occurred at or below 500ft AGL
85% of all recorded strikes occured when Pilot reported visibility in EXCESS of 10km. The number of birdstrikes drops dramtically when the runway is reported as wet, i.e. its raining or has just finished raining.
We don't appear to have any significant data on time of strikes, however it is generally regarded that dawn and dusk are 'prime time' for bird strikes.
These are probably the most relevant stats based on an intensively operated flying programme Europe wide.
There does not appear top be any specific evidence that landing lights illuminated prevent birdstrikes, and neither do colour schemes or those 'swiggles' on the spinners of props/fans.
One European airfield is looking at raptor use, even though there are natural avian predators at the same airfield. This is because the species do recognise each other and the threat they pose to each other, so the 'they all recognise sillouette X or Y as a threat' does not unfortunately hold true.
If there is a bird control unit at the airfield you operate from, its worth popping in to see them, they may well have knowledge of bird concentrations/local habitats/migratory routes that you are unaware of and vice versa of course!. For remote sites or those unconnected to an airport theres quite a bit you can do to minimise the possibility of birdstrikes in the vicinity of the landing pad too. I can drone on for a while on this but I'll end now, if anyone has any q's them ask away and I'll try to answer them as best I can.
69% of all departure strikes happened at or below 250ft AGL
59% of all arrival strikes occurred at or below 500ft AGL
85% of all recorded strikes occured when Pilot reported visibility in EXCESS of 10km. The number of birdstrikes drops dramtically when the runway is reported as wet, i.e. its raining or has just finished raining.
We don't appear to have any significant data on time of strikes, however it is generally regarded that dawn and dusk are 'prime time' for bird strikes.
These are probably the most relevant stats based on an intensively operated flying programme Europe wide.
There does not appear top be any specific evidence that landing lights illuminated prevent birdstrikes, and neither do colour schemes or those 'swiggles' on the spinners of props/fans.
One European airfield is looking at raptor use, even though there are natural avian predators at the same airfield. This is because the species do recognise each other and the threat they pose to each other, so the 'they all recognise sillouette X or Y as a threat' does not unfortunately hold true.
If there is a bird control unit at the airfield you operate from, its worth popping in to see them, they may well have knowledge of bird concentrations/local habitats/migratory routes that you are unaware of and vice versa of course!. For remote sites or those unconnected to an airport theres quite a bit you can do to minimise the possibility of birdstrikes in the vicinity of the landing pad too. I can drone on for a while on this but I'll end now, if anyone has any q's them ask away and I'll try to answer them as best I can.
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Further to my comment a couple of days ago about flashing car headlamps at birds to get their attention: a very useful addition to landing lamps is the Pulselite system, which flashes the landing lamps on and off to make the aircraft more apparent. A number of manufacturers have STC'd units, a simple Google will give them.
They are required on contracted fire fighting helicopters here, but I first used them about 15 years ago on a 109. If you have more than one lamp, and they are close together, set them to pulse together rather than alternately. If they are far apart, alternate flashing is best
They are required on contracted fire fighting helicopters here, but I first used them about 15 years ago on a 109. If you have more than one lamp, and they are close together, set them to pulse together rather than alternately. If they are far apart, alternate flashing is best