Chinook & other tandem rotors discussions
I had a trip in a Chinook sim some years ago - thanks JJ and John - and had a bit of a play.
Spot turns with no cyclic input turned about the centre of the aircraft. Spot turns with right or left cyclic turned about the rear or front of the aircraft - but I can't for the life of me remember which cyclic went with which end.
But as a low time pilot (then 70 hours and a PPL on R22s) it didn't take too long to get comfortable enough to sling loads and fly formation . . . but the AFCS is really good !
Spot turns with no cyclic input turned about the centre of the aircraft. Spot turns with right or left cyclic turned about the rear or front of the aircraft - but I can't for the life of me remember which cyclic went with which end.
But as a low time pilot (then 70 hours and a PPL on R22s) it didn't take too long to get comfortable enough to sling loads and fly formation . . . but the AFCS is really good !
Iconoclast
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Who is shooting that machine gun?
This is slightly off track but.....
My very first ride in a helicopter was in a Piaseki HRP-1 the original flying banana. The engine was in the rear of the passenger compartment completely exposed (a mechanics’ dream) along with the fuel bladder. I was sitting near the combining gearbox when the pilot put the helicopter into autorotation and the helicopter did not have a freewheeling unit. Instead it had a spring-loaded jaw clutch which sounded like a machine gun going off. It scared the hell out of us that were not familiar with the HRP-1.
My very first ride in a helicopter was in a Piaseki HRP-1 the original flying banana. The engine was in the rear of the passenger compartment completely exposed (a mechanics’ dream) along with the fuel bladder. I was sitting near the combining gearbox when the pilot put the helicopter into autorotation and the helicopter did not have a freewheeling unit. Instead it had a spring-loaded jaw clutch which sounded like a machine gun going off. It scared the hell out of us that were not familiar with the HRP-1.
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The CH-46 and CH-47 families have had a very interesting history of AFCS' (whatever Boeing wanted to call them, they eventually are all an Automatic system of some sort).
The latest version is probably one of the finest systems I've ever seen. Simple (relatively) to understand, does a nice job, and makes both the aircraft quite docile.
The CH-46 is the worse of the two with the AFCS off, and is probably due to the aerodynamic shape of the rear fin. I can't speak for earlier models of the CH-47, but the C and D are not bad with everything turned off.
The BV 234 is probably pretty close to the CH-47D, with differences in the electrics and flight instruments.
And the way to turn about the nose is simple to do, but difficult to describe - basically pedal against the cyclic. Turn about the tail is pedal with cyclic.
Empty? They are sports cars.
The latest version is probably one of the finest systems I've ever seen. Simple (relatively) to understand, does a nice job, and makes both the aircraft quite docile.
The CH-46 is the worse of the two with the AFCS off, and is probably due to the aerodynamic shape of the rear fin. I can't speak for earlier models of the CH-47, but the C and D are not bad with everything turned off.
The BV 234 is probably pretty close to the CH-47D, with differences in the electrics and flight instruments.
And the way to turn about the nose is simple to do, but difficult to describe - basically pedal against the cyclic. Turn about the tail is pedal with cyclic.
Empty? They are sports cars.
I seem to rememebr that when lifting to the hover and the weight comes off ( the microswitches associated with) the rear wheels, the longitudinal cyclic control re-datums itself through subtle length changes, via screw jacks, of the control runs. And AFCS Off, the stick gradient is reversed translating to and from the hover. (Now that's inviting the purists to put me right!!)
But that said, an R22 pilot should still have little difficulty hovering a Chinook.
But that said, an R22 pilot should still have little difficulty hovering a Chinook.
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
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But that said, an R22 pilot should still have little difficulty hovering a Chinook.
Stealth Hook? Looks like a Semi-trailer that sat too long in a gang neighborhood and got "Tagged"!
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Back in 1985 the Spanish Army bought some new models from Boeing, since all "D" production line was going to the US Army they sold the Boeing Vertol 414, which was the civil version half way between the Super C and D.
Those 414 had the L-712 engines on them, FRB's and RPM's indicators in %'s, although oil cooling system and AGB's were the same as in C models.
The other day I was invited to go to my former Chinook batallion brand new Delta simulator. The cockpit and instruments all looked quite alike a C model. Although I haven't seen the BV 234 I would think that they would be closer to the BV 414 than to a D model.
Just my 2 cents.
Buen Vuelo
Those 414 had the L-712 engines on them, FRB's and RPM's indicators in %'s, although oil cooling system and AGB's were the same as in C models.
The other day I was invited to go to my former Chinook batallion brand new Delta simulator. The cockpit and instruments all looked quite alike a C model. Although I haven't seen the BV 234 I would think that they would be closer to the BV 414 than to a D model.
Just my 2 cents.
Buen Vuelo
Chinook Amphibians
I was watching the programme "Combat Helicopters" on Channel 5 last night and was amazed to see a US Chinook landing on the sea to pick up a RIB. The initial splash was quite big and, when they showed a shot from inside, the crew were ankle deep in water as they pulled the boat inboard. In fact, they seemed to rely on the backwash to bring the boat inside.
Is this a procedure used and trained for regularly by any Chinook operators?
When you think how that amount of water can capsize a ferry, the control and stability problems for a helicopter must be quite interesting.
Is this a procedure used and trained for regularly by any Chinook operators?
When you think how that amount of water can capsize a ferry, the control and stability problems for a helicopter must be quite interesting.
Indeed so.
At least some of the footage (that showing a Chinook with plimsoll lines on the outside) was of an aircraft from Boscombe. Venue was Lyn Brenig.
I think the interior footage of the surfing crewman was of the BD trial, too.
At least some of the footage (that showing a Chinook with plimsoll lines on the outside) was of an aircraft from Boscombe. Venue was Lyn Brenig.
I think the interior footage of the surfing crewman was of the BD trial, too.
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I have seen several pictures of Chinooks landing on lakes (but have nowhere to host them so can't post them), including one of a RIB coming into the back, looks quite impressive taking off with all the water gushing out.
I believe all the pictures I have seen have been on lakes, not the sea, ie fresh, not salt, water. I seem to remember that salt water can be very damaging to aircraft, but fresh water isn't so bad, am I wrong? (it has been known to happen)
I believe all the pictures I have seen have been on lakes, not the sea, ie fresh, not salt, water. I seem to remember that salt water can be very damaging to aircraft, but fresh water isn't so bad, am I wrong? (it has been known to happen)
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I have seen several pictures of Chinooks landing on lakes (but have nowhere to host them so can't post them), including one of a RIB coming into the back
HPT
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Any one got any pictures to post of Chinnooks landing on water??
Silly question time: I take it Chinooks can't float on water without a certain amount of collective input, would I be right in assuming this?? If so how do you keep a large helo on the water rather than upside down/under the water!?!
Silly question time: I take it Chinooks can't float on water without a certain amount of collective input, would I be right in assuming this?? If so how do you keep a large helo on the water rather than upside down/under the water!?!