hi sandman build up hours for what? there are always jobs in the cattle industry but the usual prerequisite is a rural background in australia. don't despair though many a kiwi has started his flying career over here. the cattle industry is one of the best for helicopter piots and if you can get a start the money is better than any where.(nearly), on top of that it's great fun and raises your skill level rapidly. most of the guys that live and work in the outback permanently are some of the best pilots you could hope to get in a machine with. if we could manage to coerce some of these blokes away from the bush the industry will do well. there is a lot of wasted talent out there. good luck to you if you give it a go.
------------------ your too high,your too low, your too fast your too slow
[This message has been edited by imabell (edited 11 June 2001).]
Pac' to give you an answer to your question, most Queenslanders seem to use H300's (or whatever they are called now), where as in the NT and top WA they use the R22 almost exclusively now. I left the NT about 3 years ago now and miss it dearly, I was fortunate enough to operate B47's and KH4's most of the time. They don't seem to go for the 47 anymore due to the fact that most stations have got to provide the fuel for each muster. Obviously you can't beat the fuel flow of a robbie. Most of the mining work is still done in 47's and KH4's.
Sandman', the mustering industry is a little bit clicky. You have to be able to walk the walk and talk the talk, so to speek. Most mustering pilots have come from a cattle background. It is the only way that they can get credibility from station managers and workers. The other problem now is that the industry is crowded. There are a large number of commercial operators and private blokes out there so you have to know your stuff. The stations and companies can't afford to have pilots that are going to push cattle to hard, or miss large numbers etc, the dollar is too tight for that.
Don't get me wrong, there are still oportunities, but they are harder to find now. The mustering industry is a different place these days. But the Aussie dollar is better for live export and everyone knows the foot and mouth problem overseas, so there should be some movement in the industry. Even if you don't get into chasing cattle around there is always mining, survey, conservation commission, DPI&F, bush fire and tourist work in the top end that will keep pilots coming through the ranks.
Don't be too discouraged, probably 80% of the pilots working in Australia have come from the bush.
THANKS FOR THE INPUT, ESPECIALLY THAT OF ROTORQUE, IT HAS GIVEN SOME FOOD FOR THOUGHT, WITH THE OPTIONS IN THE MINING AND CONSERVATION DEPARTMENT ETC, THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IS KNOWING WHERE TO START ONCE COMPLETING MY TRAINING AS TO WHERE TO GO TO OBTAIN WORK ON LIMITED HOURS AND EXPERINCE THAT WILL PUT ME IN GOOD STEAD TO GAIN EXPERINCE AND THE GOOD MONEY THAT IS STARTING TO APPEAR FURTHER ABROAD. NEW ZEALAND IS A SMALL COUNTRY WILL GOOD BUT LIMITED OPPERTUNITY FOR THE JUNIOR HELO PILOT, WITH A STRONG WHO YOU KNOW INFLUENCE, AND WITH THE LARGER NUMBERS OF JUNIORS COMING THRU, THE OPTION OF OVERSEAS ATTRACTIONS SEEM TO BE THE WAY TO GO, TO GET THE FOOT IN THE DOOR
ONCE AGAIN THANKS FOR THE COMMENTS MUCH APPRECIATED
It's been a while, but as I remember it you obviously require a CPL if you are to work for a mustering company. There are plenty of pilots out there operating privately with a vested interest in the property they are working on.
You will also require a mustering ticket. I think it's a rating, not an endorsement. the rating is 10 hours with a suitably qualified mustering pilot. You will also need a low level endorsment but I can't remember the numbers etc for that one. Once you have those things your right to go. One thing to remember is that the rating has a currency requirement as well, I think it's 50 hours in a 365 day period but I can't be sure.
Different companies have their own in house requirements that you will need to satisfy as well.
Hope this helps, if not, all the information is in the appropriate books. (ie: CAO's)
One other thing - I am sure you have seen The Discovery Channel documentary on mustering. They seemed to indicate that a mustering pilot requires a couple of years of ground mustering experience first. Check it out. Good luck (you lunatic)
Could I make the following suggestions regarding your training since you are planning to fly in oz once you have your NZ CPL (H).
Complete your training with as much Pilot in Command time as possible.
Make sure that all low flying that you do is specifically logged as low flying and if possible get your instructor to indorse you logbook saying that you have completed X amount of low flying hours (ideally the amount required for the aussie low flying rating)
Obtain a H300 and R22 rating within your CPL training to minimise costs.
Contact CASA now and check out what flight experience you need for the aussie CPL and make sure that you cover all of the CASA CPL(H) requirement within your NZ CPL
Also in addition to the above don’t get pressured into flying and not logging hours once in the mustering scene. Not a good start to your career.
you need 100 hours pilot in command before you can be issued with a mustering endorsement, it is an endorsement.
you need a minimum of ten hours low flying training in helicopters to be issued with a low flying approval. this approval allows you to fly below five hundred feet (the legal limit) while you are working only and is not a blanket approval to go anywhere at this height.
h300 types come and go, unfortunatley.
there are a few 300's about but nowhere in the numbers of the past.there are 300's in the kimberly region and the territory.
the 47 has had a bit of a come back in central australia but as the grazier supplies the fuel he dictates the type. if the operator supplied the fuel the grazier would use any thing that flies.
there are some companies that will employ you and give you extensive training and there are others that will exploit you, just like anywhere.
you only need a private pilots licence to be eligible for a mustering approval but you are only able to muster on the private property of your employer. this rule is broken constantly and makes life difficult for the commercial operator.
that's another story
again, good luck
[This message has been edited by imabell (edited 12 June 2001).]
You can't just rock up to an operator log book under arm with your CPLH,Low level and mustering endorsements,and expect to be put to immediate work.
A basic license with appropriate endorsements is basically a license to learn.
You will need to wedge your foot in the door by proving that you are hard working,safe and level headed, willing to learn, capable of doing the job,and that you are a team player. Above all else you must be keen. On top of all this you must also be a skilled diplomat.
Most sucessful green pilots do this by being there to help out.
If an operator believes that you have potential you may be employed as a "slave".
In this time you get to do all the menial tasks that nobody else wants to do. It is important that you make as much use of this oppertunity as possible to learn about your machine.Be in the hanger, help the engineers,learn do a daily properly, learn the correct names for all parts and what goes wrong with them.
Your employer will recognise the knowledge you have gained and with the right attitude may then be given the chance to progress.
The ten hours of training that you did for your mustering endorsement does not adequately prepare you for the real thing.Safe flying practises are of paramount importance as is knowing how to tackle the job at hand.Many people describe a muster as a giant game of chess. The paddock being the board and the thousand or so animals represent the moving pieces.
The average person will fly with a senior pilot (Dual controls) for anywhere up to Two Hundred hours on mustering operations. He must demonstrate sound knowledge, safe practises and a little bit of cattle sense before being assigned a machine and a place in a muster. Once solo a training pilot will compliment one or two others on a job so that further guidance can be given. (sometimes at the expense of the operator). When deemed competent, then and only then will you be given the chance to turn up at a property by your self and practise your diplomatic skills.
If an operator senses that your primary objective is to get a few hours together then move on, he will not waste his time with you.
I am not writing this to discourage you, merely to better arm you with the knowledge you will need if you wish to proceed down this line.
Be prepared to work hard and it could be very rewarding.
Firstly, I'm not a mustering driver, so am just repeating what I've heard. Mustering generally does not require many hours, you pick them up along the way. It does require an endorsement. The thing is, its pretty unlikely that you'd get a look in with no prior involvement in the Australian beef industry. The important thing is having "cattle sense" and knowing how to move beasts in conjunction with the ground team and not overstress the animals. For this reason, many mustering pilots were station ringers (ground-based cattle men) prior to becoming pilots.
As I said, I'm not one, but am passing on what I know. Hopefully you'll get an answer from "the real thing", but I reckon they are all too busy out there flying their bums off and having a great time to be sitting around surfing the net. Lucky ******s!
You do need a low level and mustering endorsement. If you have done fire water bombing or ag work or other low level flying, that will generally keep CASA happy. Various places can provide mustering training. Generally the best or most popular mustering pilots have worked cattle for years on stations, jackerooing or whatever. However like all flying jobs it is a case of supply and demand. If there is a shortage of experienced pilots, then very low time pilots are often employed. As usual being in the area and readily available helps but get the paper qualifications first and be ready to fly dawn to dusk.
Ahhhh! mustering pilots operating in the avoid curve, I have read of accidents along the lines of
Mad cow tried to leap into cockpit ................ac destroyed in subsequent crash.
Stones flicked up by frightened stock went into tail/main rotor..........ac destroyed in subsequent crash.
xxxxxxx broke/departed ac while at low level ......................ac destroyed in subsequent crash. ATSB determined cause of xxxxx breaking/departing ac due to x,000hrs over and above those recorded in the ac log being the actual airframe flight hrs.
Like most, there are some good un's & some bad un's out there.
A good friend of mine with 1000's hrs of mustering said everyone should do it for a while as it helps get all the testosterone out of the system and they are more restrained thereafter (one hopes ).
Yes I have heard over the years that stockmen or those who are familiar with mooies or can think like them, are generally preferred. They have a knack for reading cows minds from a distance.
Hone22: Another legend from the bad old days was when a 47 pilot got one of his skids jammed right up the rear end of a cantankerous scrub bull. He had an interesting time trying to pull the curved part of the skid out because of its angle. Apparently he even managed to lift the bulls rear legs off the ground while it was flailing around.