Flying in the Persian/Arabian Gulf

[rotorboy]

Any of you ADA guys give substance to this rumor....

Any Idea what they pay is going to be (peanuts=?)

Tours?

Could sure deal with some sun these days,...

RB

[SLBAGAGE]

From what I understand they are not looking for any co-pilot type people. They are after captains for both positions. So you will need a 212/412 captaincy and an unrestricted ATPL(H). A co-pilot Inst rating would not go astray either..
The hours are not known.
This is what I undertsand from my discussions!
Can anyone enlighted me about the bond openings please!

[arviator]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is a "restricted ATPL(H)"? My UK ATPL has never been restricted so is this an aussie thing or FAA or what? Also can you explain what a co-pilot IR is. I thought an IR was an IR, and was not command (or co-pilot)specific.
One final thing, does anyone really know what the deal is in ADA? Are they recruiting? if so who (ie 212 rated or is any multi-turbine type eg S76 OK), and what is the money on offer??
Good luck to anyone jobhunting at the moment.

[Yarba]

Nothing changed really. Cr*p accommodation, cr*p pay. Choice of 6/6 or 8/4 roster. Pay equates to about US$4100 per month for 6/6 or US$5300 per month for 8/4 (becos the UAE Dirham is fixed to the US$). You have to pay for your food out of that and if you have a day off you have to pay for taxis to go any where or buy a car. The usual rumors about better pay and accommodation which may come true if we need more bums on seats here.
Still, could be worse and we all hope it happens. As for low hours guys - sadly I think you may still have a problem. But keep trying.

[GLSNightPilot]

In the US, you can get an ATP(H) limited to VFR only. I don't think it's very common, but it is possible.

[Yabu]

A number of us have pushed for more money at ADA, but as yet to no avail. As far as I can make out ADA still only takes on those with 212/412 command time, and you will need a lot of it. The training department is experienced and thorough, you will need to perform to pass their criteria, both in handling skill and IFR and slinging. I know of a handful of decent pilot prospects which have been overlooked due to lack of Bell command. As for the line work itself, for the first tour the average pilot will find it demanding, due to work load brought about by high density traffic, paperwork, heavy slingwork in high temps and humidity, and also to find your way around, ie in Zakum field in particular. Add to that a 7 flight hour day is not uncommon. Add that to up -to 80 (!) takeoffs and landings during that day. As for 2 pilot, we hear its on the horizon, but nothing solid yet. The recruitment of 20 or so pilots is to fill a roster change brought about by the change in adopting JAR OPS. The conditions and how well you are treated by ADA - well thats another story. Some can handle it , others not. It pays not to think with a logical western mind here. Yarba, we probably have morning coffee together - what a mystery!

[Skaz]

guys, ADA , do they have a website?

ADA stands for what? Abu Dhabi Aviation?

Any idea of requirements?

thanks a lot

[Red Wine]

Restricted ATPL

Each Sate [country] of ICAO has the capacity to vary the ICAO Standards providing the State notifys ICAO of the variance.

In Australia, CASA can issue a "Restricted" ATPL, that is valid within Australian airspace only.

These "Restricted" ATPL's normally relate to a lower medical standard...such as colour blindness, or a hearing deficiency of some minor level.

I suspect in the case of the Gulf, the employer requires full / normal ATPL.

As far as the co-pilot Instrument Rating [as apart from the normal Command IR] and the 2nd Class Type Endorsement [as apart from the Command Type Endorsement] is concerned........both of these are taught and examined to a lesser standard than the normal Command Standard.

Both have been issued and used in Australia for many years........and its a great way for folk with limited experience to enter the multi engine/ multi crew world.

[Skaz]

Yarba had a look at your post, I dont know why you say so, but I think tha pay you mentioned is pretty damn F#$^&ng good, mate.

In fact, its 4 to 5 times what I get now

[SASless]

$4100 per month....no medical..no retirement....crappy housing...no loss of license....gone from home half the time....NOT BAD!

I think I will stay home and pay taxes.....and get the insurance and retirement, etc.......

[the coyote]

Living in the UAE

Might have to move to the UAE and was wondering what people who have lived/worked there think of the place. Any info at all would be appreciated.

[gulliBell]

You'll probably arrive in the middle of the night and be taken to stalag ADA. You'll have a private room (much like an ATCO transportable), and probably share a bathroom with one other pilot/engineer. You might have hot and cold running water, or you might not. But in summer you'll ONLY have hot water! You might have an airconditioner that works, or you might not. But if it is working chances are you'll need to wear ear plugs to keep out the noise so you can get to sleep at night. You'll probably have a squadron of little black ants marching through the room, especially if you keep any food in there (remember, you have to buy/cook your own food). You'll definitely have heat and dust in summer, but at least you can get a cold drink in the camp and run a bar chit. You'll need to rely on company buses for transport, except in the early days when you'll be assigned a driver to take you where you have to go to get through the induction admin. Be prepared to hurry up and wait, and unless you've worked in the Middle East before there're some cultural aspects you'll need to come to terms with. It's certainly not Club Med, but it's only for 6 weeks and then you get to go home (unless of course they "ask" you to extend). So if you enjoy it, great - if you don't, just put it down to experience.

[the coyote]

It wont be with ADA or in Abu Dhabi. Work aside, more interested in what its like generally as a place to live. What the people are like, security, services etc.

[jellycopter]

Coyote. It very much depends upon which Emirate you are intending to live in. My experience is of Dubai, which is generally regarded as 'the place to be', with Abu Dhabi coming a close second. Sharjah, RAK, UAQ and Ajman have less to offer. Social life is excellent in the diverse expat community. Loads of excellent hotels, restaurants, night clubs and pubs. Service is generally impeccable. Plenty of outdoor activities; golf (expensive), water sports, quad biking, off roading and sandy beaches. Outdoor swimming pools and indoor gymnasiums are everywhere. There are also things like indoor tennis, squash, badminton etc. Depending upon your housing allowance, accommodation can be superb, although it is quite expensive but very much dependant upon area (Look on the Gulf News or Khaleej Times web site in the classified section for pricing). Schooling is also available to UK and US syllabi (not sure about Aussy though). Hospitals plentiful and well equipped. Pretty much, if you've heard of it, you can get it somewhere in Dubai. Being a muslim country, you need to be aware of local sensibilities, but that said, Dubai is very cosmopolitan and your western way of life has few, if any, restrictions placed upon it. Depending upon which company you will work for, you may never even come into contact with a local arab; so if you're after a great arabic cultural experience, avoid Dubai. On the other hand, if you want fun, plenty to do in your free time and an expat lifestyle which is probably secong to none, go for it. J

[the coyote]

Thanks Jellycopter, thats just the sort of info I was looking for.

[wde]

Talked to Cal Fryer there a few days ago;

For 8/4, pay is 5277 USD per month, every month..
for 6/6, pay is 75% of that figure..
I don't imagine there's much for benefits, ...but I don't know
About an 18-22 hr transit for the Wet coast of Canada...

They are hiring lots right now because of a new contract that requires 2 bums in the cockpit...I know several Canucks who have recently pulled pitch for the Gulf but haven't heard from them..

Also, they are contemplating going to a Daily rate, which according to my calcs would be about USD 300 per day...standard rumours of pay raises which are really related to $40 barrel of oil.

The Crew accom is currently full, so new hires are staying in a local hotel, and apparently they are soon starting construction on new digs...

As far as the tax issues go, at least in Canada, if you keep residency here, there is a legal obligation to declare all sources of income, domestic and foreign. I don't know if Abu Dhabi and Canada have a tax treaty though. so the money may not be very tax free if you know what I mean...

That's all I have now...if i wanted a job, there would be a ticket in my name...

[Steve76]

I know this has been thrashed around before, but what are the 'exact' tax laws for NZ and OZ on this one? There are lots of comments about it being Tax free but can any of you guys out there actually touring tell us your tales?
Does having no BELL time set you back?
As for staying home for the benefits....well I still have yet to get to the podiatrist and it is harder than one thinks to find time to use all the chiro. You need to visit your GP to get a massage authorised and the company still deduct $16 dollars a fortnight for the priviledge. Then the government take their 45%......!
As for the pension plan... I don't think a real return of -1% per annum is going far towards my retirement.

[helmet fire]

Steve76, no idea what tax laws are in NZ.


But, and for Flungdung too, in Oz they are about to change and you will be taxed at the normal Oz rate unless you spend bu@@er all time back in Oz. No longer will 6/6 be tax free, but if you worked 10 months over there and only had two months back, you might get away with it. Run a search on the D&G forums as there was an extensive thread on this topic a few months ago, and all was explained.

This very thing caused me to pull out my application.

[Granny]

Steve 76
The tax deal in NZ is quite simple -they want your money no matter where you earn it. As a NZ citizen you are liable to pay tax on all earnings either from a local source or from an overseas one. When touring back to NZ and bringing in your overseas income if there is a reciprocal tax agreement between the NZ goverment and the country where your earned that money then the tax paid at source will be deducted off what you need to pay in NZ, However you then get into provisional tax payments , meaning you pay next years tax this year and make adjustments later.
As for working in an tax free enviroment eg Middle East and touring back to NZ you pay the appropiate amount back in NZ so it is only tax free in the country of source. You can get non resident tax status in NZ it involves selling any home you have used as a residence , your car , having no medical insurance policy etc etc and being out of NZ 245 days in the first year thereafter you can come and go as you please. You could look at putting it all into a trust but IRD are onto this as a tax dodge , so you would need to see a good accountant. Best live in NZ have your bank accounts overseas do your tours and use your overseas credit card to live off when in NZ. And declare what you bring home in your pocket.

[rotorboy]

Anyone using a grand cayman atm in the states will get screwed. There has been some in junction with these things and the iRS is tracking who/where and how...

so me money no speake no ingi

gud look fella - dont you read the economist...


rb