Agusta A109
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Many moving maps from garmin 430 up to 14" displayed on Avilex Flir Monitor , depends which one you are getting. In Europe Euro avionics make a large one with lots of terrain info as well.
Other ones are Metamap and Navitrack ( good canadian company ).
Other ones are Metamap and Navitrack ( good canadian company ).
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Most P.D.'s display it on the FLIR monitor. One less screen in the cockpit. Anything smaller for a map that displays address's and stuff is too small to really work with.
We currently have the Avilex monitor in our birds. They are very nice screens, and do not take much room.
We currently have the Avilex monitor in our birds. They are very nice screens, and do not take much room.
A-109E down in LGIK
A A-109E operated by Helitalia on behalf of the Greek National Emergency service went down on February the 10th at 21:15 GMT as it was turning base to runway 33 at Ikaria airport in Eastern Greece. There were 2 pilots and 2 medical crew on board.
The wind was blowing at 4 knots.
Some debris have been found but no bodies recovered yet
It is the third helicopter that crashes in less than 25 months..
RIP for the crew.
Rwy in Sight
The wind was blowing at 4 knots.
Some debris have been found but no bodies recovered yet
It is the third helicopter that crashes in less than 25 months..
RIP for the crew.
Rwy in Sight
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Athens, 13/02/2003 (ANA)
A judicial inquiry into the conditions and causes of the third crash involving an EKAB ambulance service helicopter was launched by Supreme Court Public Prosecutor Evangelos Kroustallakis on Wednesday.
Kroustallakis has ordered investigators to determine whether any criminally prosecutable offence has been committed and by whom. He has also asked that evidence from the files of the two previous accidents be juxtaposed to determine if their causes were similar.
Finally, he asked for the minutes of meetings by the committees responsible for ordering and accepting delivery of the specific helicopters.
The last downed medicopter was lost early on Tuesday while conducting a night-time flight to pick up a patient from the Aegean island of Ikaria, disappearing from radar screens shortly after midnight while flying two kilometers from Ikaria airport. It was the third Agusta helicopter chartered from the Italian company Helitalia to crash since the loss of a medicopter that crashed off the cape of Sounio in January 2001 and another that fell in Anafi last summer, while in both previous cases everyone on board was killed.
Meanwhile, the search for survivors or bodies from the latest crash and for the remains of the fuselage was still continuing on Ikaria on Wednesday.
Three oil slicks have been sighted in the sea near the airport and the seabed is being scanned by ships on the surface to detect the fuselage.
Due to continuing bad weather and rough seas, divers and a search-and-rescue helicopter have been confined to the shore and only one Navy vessel, two salvage vessels and local fishing boats were able to participate in the search, which authorities said would continue for as long as the weather allowed.
Commenting on the accident on Wednesday, meanwhile, government spokesman Christos Protopapas stressed that the government took all measures necessary to protect lives and pointed out that Health Minister Costas Stefanis had forbidden all night-time flights by EKAB helicopters after the latest accident.
He said that continued collaboration with Helitalia, the company responsible for the technical supervision of the helicopters, would be reviewed when its contract with EKAB expired within the year while noting that it had been chosen by public tender.
He also pointed out that the same type of helicopter was used by many countries for similar tasks, while adding that each country had its own special geographical and other characteristics.
''We have to look into the conditions of the specific flight,'' Protopapas stressed and underlined that there had been a thorough technical check prior to the fateful flight and that all safety regulations had been adhered to.
He said that reports of malfunctions in the specific helicopter would be investigated.
Finally, Protopapas announced that the army had volunteered to cover the immediate emergency needs of island populations after the ban on night-time medicopter flights, and that a more permanent solution would be sought during a meeting of the cabinet to discuss health and welfare issues on Thursday.
EKAB doctors and paramedics refuse to fly with Helitalia helicopters in future: Doctors and paramedics of the National Emergency Centre (EKAB) held a general assembly on Wednesday and stressed their refusal to fly with helicopters of the ''Helitalia'' company in the future.
Helicopter flights at night have already been forbidden, while EKAB representatives made it clear that they will not travel in ''Helitalia'' helicopters during daytime either, except for those belonging to the military, to ferry patients from remote islands to organized hospitals.
They said they want the management of flying facilities to return to a public carrier and reserved their right to call new mobilizations during their general assembly on Monday.
END.
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Although all three crashes were different in nature (the first one was low flight in heavy night thunderstorm over the sea, the second one was night CFIT during t/o, the third one was on short final in excelent -night- weather conditions) they all had -at least- these in common: they were all flown night VFR in A109P helicopters operated by Helitalia (who have now lost 3 out of the original 5 helis on the job -60% in two years!).
The investigation will focus on pilot training under night VFR over the sea (a number of pilots were ex- Army heli pilots, instead of the more "expensive" to hire ex-Naval heli pilots), on A-109P's capacity to do the job and of course on Helitalia's practices and SOPs.
RIP.
"Think Rate" thanks for your info on the accident!
I hope this does not mean the end of civilian HEMS operations in Greece.
Very sad and very strange that there have been 3 major crashes in such a short time. I hope that a thorough investigation will determine the cause of the crashes.
In all civilised countries private commercial operators are taking over ambulance and medevac operations from the military and it would truly be a sad day if someone would think that civilian operators don´t do as good a job as the military for the Greek people.
Surely an Italian operator would know how to operate a Italian made helicopter safely and although I have newer flown the A-109 I understand that they are excellent IFR/IMC aircraft. So with a properly trained crew night operations should be no problem.
Please keep us updated on the situation.
I hope this does not mean the end of civilian HEMS operations in Greece.
Very sad and very strange that there have been 3 major crashes in such a short time. I hope that a thorough investigation will determine the cause of the crashes.
In all civilised countries private commercial operators are taking over ambulance and medevac operations from the military and it would truly be a sad day if someone would think that civilian operators don´t do as good a job as the military for the Greek people.
Surely an Italian operator would know how to operate a Italian made helicopter safely and although I have newer flown the A-109 I understand that they are excellent IFR/IMC aircraft. So with a properly trained crew night operations should be no problem.
Please keep us updated on the situation.
Join Date: Sep 2001
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I had a chance to see a thorough debriefing about their secind accident. Here is from my memory:
the story goes, that this air ambulance service was cofounded by EU, under condition, that it will be organised well under JAR OPS 3- HEMS. Greek government was thus forced to go into international public tender for organisation of this HEMS service and Helitalia won - and provided helicopters, maintenance and pilots. But Greeks wanted to have native PICs -so dual pilot crew was adopted - one Greek and one Italian or other nation, as provided by Helitalia.
The crash - CFIT happened approx two minutes after take off on a clear night with no wind and with good visual clues on take off, provided by lights of nearby town, below helipad, which was located on top of the small hill. Helicopter departed almost 90° away from prescribed departure bearing, and crashed at the altitude only a few hundred feet above the helipad elevation, and with landing gear still down.
No mechanical failure was linked to the accident.
The gentleman, giving the presentation, was quite familiar with some pilots, flying for this company, and he gave the following (shortened) explanation:
"we are facing the new sort of accidents", and he called it "a multicultural accident" Namelly, he was well informed about the relations between local and ("imported") company pilots, which were seen as intruders and a fight of egos was in the air most of the time, fighting for "who is right and who is more knowledgeable...., so that kind of cockpit atmosphere was obviously precluding any teamwork, dedicated to safe flying.
Sad to say this, but from the presentation and hard evidence provided, I had to concur with the explanation given.
the story goes, that this air ambulance service was cofounded by EU, under condition, that it will be organised well under JAR OPS 3- HEMS. Greek government was thus forced to go into international public tender for organisation of this HEMS service and Helitalia won - and provided helicopters, maintenance and pilots. But Greeks wanted to have native PICs -so dual pilot crew was adopted - one Greek and one Italian or other nation, as provided by Helitalia.
The crash - CFIT happened approx two minutes after take off on a clear night with no wind and with good visual clues on take off, provided by lights of nearby town, below helipad, which was located on top of the small hill. Helicopter departed almost 90° away from prescribed departure bearing, and crashed at the altitude only a few hundred feet above the helipad elevation, and with landing gear still down.
No mechanical failure was linked to the accident.
The gentleman, giving the presentation, was quite familiar with some pilots, flying for this company, and he gave the following (shortened) explanation:
"we are facing the new sort of accidents", and he called it "a multicultural accident" Namelly, he was well informed about the relations between local and ("imported") company pilots, which were seen as intruders and a fight of egos was in the air most of the time, fighting for "who is right and who is more knowledgeable...., so that kind of cockpit atmosphere was obviously precluding any teamwork, dedicated to safe flying.
Sad to say this, but from the presentation and hard evidence provided, I had to concur with the explanation given.
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Thanks for the info. I was flying through Greece at the time (from Egypt to Germany) and couldn't understand a word of what was on Greek telly but there were more than a few "heated" discussions about it. I think the Greeks are pretty upset about this especially as it's the third in two years.
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Dyfed-Powys Police buy Agusta 109E
Press Release by Dyfed-Powys Police
It is confirmed that the Authority have approved the purchase of an Agusta 109E from Sloane Helicopters Ltd. In reaching a decision the Force and Authority considered other alternative helicopters. A detailed evaluation process has been undertaken by officers of the Force which concluded that the Agusta 109E was best placed to meet the operating mission profile of the Force and was also the most competitively priced solution.
This aircraft is a replacement for the previously owned Agusta 109E. In light of the requirement for the aircraft to be fitted with police specific role equipment and the suppliers’ own lead-time, delivery is anticipated in October. In the meantime the Force will continue to maintain air support coverage through the use of a hired aircraft.
It is confirmed that the Authority have approved the purchase of an Agusta 109E from Sloane Helicopters Ltd. In reaching a decision the Force and Authority considered other alternative helicopters. A detailed evaluation process has been undertaken by officers of the Force which concluded that the Agusta 109E was best placed to meet the operating mission profile of the Force and was also the most competitively priced solution.
This aircraft is a replacement for the previously owned Agusta 109E. In light of the requirement for the aircraft to be fitted with police specific role equipment and the suppliers’ own lead-time, delivery is anticipated in October. In the meantime the Force will continue to maintain air support coverage through the use of a hired aircraft.
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Anything wrong with this wonder?
Is there anyone else operating A-109 E in police role? Speak up please, and tell about your experience. (Ours A-109E is coming next year)
Is there anyone else operating A-109 E in police role? Speak up please, and tell about your experience. (Ours A-109E is coming next year)
Join Date: Mar 2000
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Welcome to Rotorheads, Mihael.
Guys
Mihael is a pilot with the Slovenia Police ASU. He's interested in knowing:
I think Mihael is our first Rotorhead from Slovenia - Can any Police pilots help?
Heliport
Guys
Mihael is a pilot with the Slovenia Police ASU. He's interested in knowing:
- What Police Pilots who currently operate the A-109E think of it's performance
and - How the A109 compares with the MD 902 and EC-135?
I think Mihael is our first Rotorhead from Slovenia - Can any Police pilots help?
Heliport
Just to add the report on the accident that led to the requirement for a new airframe is out see http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/bulletin/feb03/gdpph.htm
I think the answer to Mihaels question is there is nothing wrong with the airframe, it just hasn't been popular in the UK. Perhaps a post on the European ASU forum might provide some more answers.
I think the answer to Mihaels question is there is nothing wrong with the airframe, it just hasn't been popular in the UK. Perhaps a post on the European ASU forum might provide some more answers.
I have had the pleasure of working at Dyfed-Powys albeit on both the AS 355 (not their old 'N') and the trusty old Bollock!!
From this I appreciated that the unit had a huge area to cover and probably placed speed in transit at a higher priority than possibly other units did - so hence the 109.
I would suggest that the Ec 135 and the MD 902 have to work very hard to get close to a 109 - but what the hell do I know!!
I don't fly the A 109E, but I know a man who did and I may ask him to comment for the benefit of those who want a pilot's eye view when comparing the 902/135 and 109
From this I appreciated that the unit had a huge area to cover and probably placed speed in transit at a higher priority than possibly other units did - so hence the 109.
I would suggest that the Ec 135 and the MD 902 have to work very hard to get close to a 109 - but what the hell do I know!!
I don't fly the A 109E, but I know a man who did and I may ask him to comment for the benefit of those who want a pilot's eye view when comparing the 902/135 and 109
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Heliport,
I think there will be few people wh can compare the 109E with the other aircraft mainly used by Police forces - In the UK there is ony one force that has ever fllown the 109E.
You may get opinions, but they will not be directly drawn from experience. We are not being difficult - we don't know!
I think there will be few people wh can compare the 109E with the other aircraft mainly used by Police forces - In the UK there is ony one force that has ever fllown the 109E.
You may get opinions, but they will not be directly drawn from experience. We are not being difficult - we don't know!
I think the reason that ASUs didn't pick the 109 was that, when people started replacing their 355s and 105s, it wasn't seen as a contender against the new 135s and 902s.
Indeed Dyfed-Powys initially ordered a 135. However, after various disagreements cancelled and had a 109 instead.
Indeed Dyfed-Powys initially ordered a 135. However, after various disagreements cancelled and had a 109 instead.
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Why didn't the ASUs see the 109 as a contender at the time?
Is it now?
Is payload an issue?
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I haven't got any stats, but I've got the impression there seem to be more A109 accidents/incidents than others in common use.
Is that a false impression?
Anyone got any views?
Is it now?
Is payload an issue?
----------
I haven't got any stats, but I've got the impression there seem to be more A109 accidents/incidents than others in common use.
Is that a false impression?
Anyone got any views?
Join Date: Mar 2002
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The 109E worked well as the AA air ambulance and I would expect it to do equally well in the Police role. It is an expensive option and in my opinion less robust than some of the competition. There are continuing tail rotor issues with the Agusta product but I know they are working on that.