Robinsons and fat asses
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Robinsons and fat asses
From my experiences whilst operating a robinson 22 flight simulator I find that the general public lie about there weight. Whilst I thought I was a good estimater I found on several occasions the machine would not lift off. Only at this point would the customer own up. Ive been as much as 90kg out. Anyone had this problem in the real world.
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90kg's over with 2 pax????
im assuming you know your own weight, so if the pax weighed 130kg's you estimated 40kg's?? doesnt sound like an accurate means of determining a persons weight. 270kg's out (4 pax)in a r44 would make it hard to pickup too.just wack'em on the scales, its not hard. although i probly wouldnt bother for the simulater either.
Don't take the fat bast*rds flying!
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One Gulf coast operator evidently has weigh scales beside each aircraft to avoid the 25lb toolbox actually weight 125lb.
More than one person has come undone by not weighing the passengers and their equipment.
More than one person has come undone by not weighing the passengers and their equipment.
Iconoclast
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From the NTSB files
On June 13, 2003, at 2012 central daylight time, a McCulloch J-2 gyrocopter, N4381G, owned and piloted by a private pilot, sustained substantial damage when it impacted terrain during a forced landing at Magnolia Municipal Airport (AGO), Magnolia, Arkansas. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed at the time of the accident. The 14 CFR Part 91 personal flight was not operating on a flight plan. The pilot and passenger reported no injuries. The local flight was originating at the time of the accident.
In a written statement, the pilot stated he was attempting to give a ride to the passenger. The pilot emptied fuel from the right tank to adjust for the passenger's weight. After becoming airborne, the gyrocopter began to roll to the right. The pilot added that "full left stick would almost right the craft but it drifted to the right." The pilot then attempted a forced landing, during which the gyrocopter rolled approximately 10 feet and struck a drainage ditch in a grassy area off the runway.
The pilot stated, "This wreck could have been prevented by just saying I'm sorry but I think you weigh too much for me to give you a ride."
In a written statement, the pilot stated he was attempting to give a ride to the passenger. The pilot emptied fuel from the right tank to adjust for the passenger's weight. After becoming airborne, the gyrocopter began to roll to the right. The pilot added that "full left stick would almost right the craft but it drifted to the right." The pilot then attempted a forced landing, during which the gyrocopter rolled approximately 10 feet and struck a drainage ditch in a grassy area off the runway.
The pilot stated, "This wreck could have been prevented by just saying I'm sorry but I think you weigh too much for me to give you a ride."
The Original Whirly
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At the school where I instruct they recently made a rule that all passengers and students are weighed. I've refused to comply on the grounds that I only weigh 10 stone (140 lbs for those the other side of the pond). This means I can take anyone up to about 14 stone in the R22 with both tanks full, and up to around the max seat weight if I only fill the main tank - more than enough for an hour's lesson. This means I refuse to weigh tall skinny guys or little shrimps smaller than me. Believe it or not, I ended up in a huge argument about it. Perhaps common sense needs to play a part here.
Crazy Scandihooligan
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Fat b####ds and R22's
A weight limit is a weight limit, and has been designed for a purporse. Good old Frank Robinson did'nt make it so in his machine, that less than 17 stone or your a fat git to fly in any seat.
There is a safety concern. Don't you guys understand the difference between "weight under rotor" vs "weight on seat". You will do when you mess up the auto and the seat designed for 220 lbs collapses and breaks your spine and bits and pieces, and you can never fly again, let alone have a normal life, because your wheelchair does'nt have rotorblades
I remember going to a flying school at Shobdon ( awhile back now), and getting a FREE trial lesson, and i was over 17 stone, and the instructor said it was ok because the weight wasn't calculated by seat weight, just the general weight under the rotor blades. (Effing Cowboys.....never trained there anyway). What a liability
IHL
Be fair on Whirly, she makes a good point, (And any lady under 11 stone is ok by me) So can i assume, that you are ready to break seat weights and get pax on seats for £$. - What a Prat!! Don't ask me to fly with you - eeejit
Whirly
Keep going with your good training and instincts, and dont let prats like IHL run you down.
MD
There is a safety concern. Don't you guys understand the difference between "weight under rotor" vs "weight on seat". You will do when you mess up the auto and the seat designed for 220 lbs collapses and breaks your spine and bits and pieces, and you can never fly again, let alone have a normal life, because your wheelchair does'nt have rotorblades
I remember going to a flying school at Shobdon ( awhile back now), and getting a FREE trial lesson, and i was over 17 stone, and the instructor said it was ok because the weight wasn't calculated by seat weight, just the general weight under the rotor blades. (Effing Cowboys.....never trained there anyway). What a liability
IHL
Be fair on Whirly, she makes a good point, (And any lady under 11 stone is ok by me) So can i assume, that you are ready to break seat weights and get pax on seats for £$. - What a Prat!! Don't ask me to fly with you - eeejit
Whirly
Keep going with your good training and instincts, and dont let prats like IHL run you down.
MD
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excuse me, i kneed to pull this up, so sitting on it wont help!
i find that anybody around the max weight in a R44 (136kg, 300lbs) overhangs the collective a bit so they've gotta go in the back, or doesnt fit in the seetbelt anyway. they seem to think its a problem with the seetbelt reel, it must be stuck!
from my experiences, if theyre too fat for a robbo they usually wont get a seat belt around they're gut, however problems arise with muscular people. These are however usually quite easy to spot.
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Crew/Passenger weight calculations are statutory.
All the junk food that is being consumed is causing headaches in the airline industry. Average passenger weights and average mass of passenger is increasing so that rows of seats are being removed to ensure aircraft performance is achieved.
So the helicopter industry is in the same calamity. Fat and overweight people will want to hire you for a flight. If that/those persons are over/above the limit set by the maker then you cant take them. Bust. The insurance would be invalidated if you did.
Tell the fat ******s to eat less and take exercise and come back when they are 'within limits'.
You also need to weigh the bags that you carry. They also have their limits set by the loading plan in the baggage area. JetRanger and Agusta can easily be out of baggage space/floor limits.
Laptops and the other associated IT items can run up a hefty lump.
Don't fly out of limits - OK!
All the junk food that is being consumed is causing headaches in the airline industry. Average passenger weights and average mass of passenger is increasing so that rows of seats are being removed to ensure aircraft performance is achieved.
So the helicopter industry is in the same calamity. Fat and overweight people will want to hire you for a flight. If that/those persons are over/above the limit set by the maker then you cant take them. Bust. The insurance would be invalidated if you did.
Tell the fat ******s to eat less and take exercise and come back when they are 'within limits'.
You also need to weigh the bags that you carry. They also have their limits set by the loading plan in the baggage area. JetRanger and Agusta can easily be out of baggage space/floor limits.
Laptops and the other associated IT items can run up a hefty lump.
Don't fly out of limits - OK!
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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Was always quite concerned (during all seven of my hours in the R22) that the only storage space in the thing was in the impact absorbing space beneath the seats.
Was always careful to leave anything solid beneath the instructor! (kidding)
Was always careful to leave anything solid beneath the instructor! (kidding)
Intriguing. Whilst the JetRanger seats are acknowledged to be impact absorbing, I haven't seen any reference to the Robinson seats along the same lines.
In fact, the R44 Newscopter comes from the factory with a swag of extra electronic boxes, neatly fitted under the co pilot's seat by Frank's finest.
In fact, the R44 Newscopter comes from the factory with a swag of extra electronic boxes, neatly fitted under the co pilot's seat by Frank's finest.
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I dont know about the eng ship but on the R22 instrument trainers they place the DG under the co pilots seat. It was placed in the very front since in the crash the seats crumple more backwards. Also the crumpling is to save your spine. If the back goes down but not the front I think this would still help.
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Must have been at the same course, Mr Selfish. The photos of the well filled under seat were eye opening. I bought a set of Helipods a couple of years ago to add more space, I think I'll be using them a lot more now!
Cool as a moosp
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The general impression I got from the discussions at "that course" was that you must leave a few inches at the top of the under-seat stowage to allow the crumple zone to collapse.
So putting the DG unit, Newscopter electronics or baggage there is OK but don't fill the space up to the top. If you look closely at the seat unit you can work out how it is supposed to deform to absorb energy. Myself I think about 5-6 inches space would work for me.
The Clipper 44 has a 5000 psi helium bottle under the pax seat. I usually wait until after the flight to inform the occupant.
So putting the DG unit, Newscopter electronics or baggage there is OK but don't fill the space up to the top. If you look closely at the seat unit you can work out how it is supposed to deform to absorb energy. Myself I think about 5-6 inches space would work for me.
The Clipper 44 has a 5000 psi helium bottle under the pax seat. I usually wait until after the flight to inform the occupant.
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I think that's probably right about the top 5 or 6 inches being the bit that has to collapse.
Only complication with stuff below that level might be if you had a real heavy landing and splayed the skids completely (al la the crash on Bribie Island last week) or stripped the skids off with a lot of forward speed and then had the misfortune to have solid rock/boulder/stuff directly under the cabin and have it push the floor upwards.
I've got a wrecked cabin in my workshop and the lower part of the seat boxes is concertina'd upwards as well. That would have pushed any contents upward with it.
Only complication with stuff below that level might be if you had a real heavy landing and splayed the skids completely (al la the crash on Bribie Island last week) or stripped the skids off with a lot of forward speed and then had the misfortune to have solid rock/boulder/stuff directly under the cabin and have it push the floor upwards.
I've got a wrecked cabin in my workshop and the lower part of the seat boxes is concertina'd upwards as well. That would have pushed any contents upward with it.
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All this talk of what not to put under your seat. Reminds me that the UK CAA seem to want all single engine helis to have floats and/or liferafts when more than a few feet from the shore.
So - have you looked under the left front seat of an R44 Clipper ? It brings tears to your instructor's eyes.
So - have you looked under the left front seat of an R44 Clipper ? It brings tears to your instructor's eyes.