Hours building: Questions, Ideas, Advice, Countries etc
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The Los Angeles racket is that you get to fly the KIIS-FM traffic spotting B206 of Commander Chuck Street, who is a local radio personality. Commander Chuck keeps a website at www.commanderchuck.com. He used to fly with one hand and transmit with the other. I don't know who hit on the idea but it's a good one... defray the cost of your traffic spotter by having an hours-builder pay $110 to fly it. I'm told Commander Chuck is excellent company, reads a book almopst the whole time and only puts it down to transmit his traffic report. One guy I heard of got 26 hours in in a week.
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"Fair is foul, foul is fair,
Hover through the fog and filthy air..." Macbeth, Act 1 Scene 1
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"Fair is foul, foul is fair,
Hover through the fog and filthy air..." Macbeth, Act 1 Scene 1
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I flew last week with Commander Chuck, on the early slot 06:00-09:00. He also flies an evening one 16:00-18:00 He flies out of Fullerton and it is now $120/hr. You fly the freeways etc as traffic watch would suggest but also between reports get the chance to do something else, I got to do a good pinnacle landing as well as a few approaches. I think he normally tries to do about 6 approaches. Yes you can book a whole week, but I think you have to book well in advance to get such a block. I had a great time, my first of hopefully many turbine hours. Having zero previous TT didn't effect anything, if he is confident with you he reads a book and even makes a point of telling you that.
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I'd highly recommend Chuck Street ("Commander Chuck") at Fullerton.
I flew with him for a week in 1997, and gained a great deal of useful experience operating the JetRanger - and also had a wonderful time.
Chuck knows those with JetRanger ratings want to do more than just fly around straight and level for three hours - we did lots of pinnacle and confined area landings in between broadcasts and when taking breaks.
Fullerton is a little off the beaten track, not far from the Knott's Berry Farm theme park, but Chuck flies all over the LA area, up to Malibu in the North and down to Orange County in the South.
If you go, make sure you land at the LAX helipad which is on the roof of a building near the Control Tower. The approach is unusual - and the departure (low level to the Ocean) is spectacular.
If you're lucky, you'll get the odd Police chase to follow. Resist the temptation to try to follow too closely what's happening on the ground - the airspace around you will suddenly be filled not only with law enforcement helicopters, but every other news helicopter in the area trying to get the best shot. It gets busy!
I flew both the (early) morning and evening shifts, and did 26 hours in the week. It was a good learning experience, enormous fun, and I'd recommend it.
[This message has been edited by Flying Lawyer (edited 29 May 2001).]
I flew with him for a week in 1997, and gained a great deal of useful experience operating the JetRanger - and also had a wonderful time.
Chuck knows those with JetRanger ratings want to do more than just fly around straight and level for three hours - we did lots of pinnacle and confined area landings in between broadcasts and when taking breaks.
Fullerton is a little off the beaten track, not far from the Knott's Berry Farm theme park, but Chuck flies all over the LA area, up to Malibu in the North and down to Orange County in the South.
If you go, make sure you land at the LAX helipad which is on the roof of a building near the Control Tower. The approach is unusual - and the departure (low level to the Ocean) is spectacular.
If you're lucky, you'll get the odd Police chase to follow. Resist the temptation to try to follow too closely what's happening on the ground - the airspace around you will suddenly be filled not only with law enforcement helicopters, but every other news helicopter in the area trying to get the best shot. It gets busy!
I flew both the (early) morning and evening shifts, and did 26 hours in the week. It was a good learning experience, enormous fun, and I'd recommend it.
[This message has been edited by Flying Lawyer (edited 29 May 2001).]
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I heard some "runmours" about the CAA not being very keen about counting the hours flown in this way - something about them only wanting to count 50% of them or something like that. Of course if you're not worried about what the CAA think of your hours (if you're US based or whatever) then who cares - but something to be aware of or at least look into before you commit the cash
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ravenx
I've also heard it said that the CAA will not allow hours flown as PiC from the left seat to be counted as P1/PiC. I don't know whether this rumour accurately reflects the CAA's position.
I flew the traffic patrol as a cheap way of gaining experience on the JetRanger, and of operating a helicopter in a professional environment – I wasn't building hours towards a licence or rating, and I still had the benefit of the additional experience whether or not the time counted towards my total hours.
However, if the objective is 'hours-building' and logging the time is important, then I agree it would be wise to make enquiries.
I have discussed the issue with friends at the CAA but (I stress) only on an informal basis. Their reaction was that the rumour couldn't possibly be true, and that "surely" no-one would take such a technical point. Hmmm! I'm not sure I share their confidence.
I have a vague recollection that the FAA doesn't draw any distinction based upon the seat occupied and the PiC is allowed to log the hours provided he/she genuinely is the PiC. Warning: it's no more than a recollection, is unconfirmed and may be wrong!
If it is correct, then it would seem illogical for the CAA to refuse to allow the hours as P1 if flown in an N-reg aircraft in the States in accordance with FAA rules. Further warning: The fact that it may be illogical doesn't mean the CAA won't disallow the hours!
[This message has been edited by Flying Lawyer (edited 31 May 2001).]
I've also heard it said that the CAA will not allow hours flown as PiC from the left seat to be counted as P1/PiC. I don't know whether this rumour accurately reflects the CAA's position.
I flew the traffic patrol as a cheap way of gaining experience on the JetRanger, and of operating a helicopter in a professional environment – I wasn't building hours towards a licence or rating, and I still had the benefit of the additional experience whether or not the time counted towards my total hours.
However, if the objective is 'hours-building' and logging the time is important, then I agree it would be wise to make enquiries.
I have discussed the issue with friends at the CAA but (I stress) only on an informal basis. Their reaction was that the rumour couldn't possibly be true, and that "surely" no-one would take such a technical point. Hmmm! I'm not sure I share their confidence.
I have a vague recollection that the FAA doesn't draw any distinction based upon the seat occupied and the PiC is allowed to log the hours provided he/she genuinely is the PiC. Warning: it's no more than a recollection, is unconfirmed and may be wrong!
If it is correct, then it would seem illogical for the CAA to refuse to allow the hours as P1 if flown in an N-reg aircraft in the States in accordance with FAA rules. Further warning: The fact that it may be illogical doesn't mean the CAA won't disallow the hours!
[This message has been edited by Flying Lawyer (edited 31 May 2001).]
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Cardinal Air Services California
Can anybody give me some info on the above operator ie address and telephone number.
I am interested in the Jetranger hour building on the Kiss FM helicopter they operate.
Any help will be appreciated
I am interested in the Jetranger hour building on the Kiss FM helicopter they operate.
Any help will be appreciated
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You'll find all the information you need, including contact numbers/e-mail address, if you click here: Commander Chuck's website
Cardinal is owned by Chuck Street who as 'Commander Chuck' provides traffic reports for Kiss FM, one of the LA radio stations.
The helicopter, a JetRanger, is based at Fullerton airfield (not far from Nott's Berry Farm/DisneyLand if you know the area).
You fly two slots a day (6-9 am and 3-5 pm) and cover a large area, South to Orange County and North to Malibu.
'Comfort breaks' during the shifts are taken at various sites which give you practice of helipad, pinnacle and confined area landings.
You can book up as many slots as you want or, as I did, the full week. You'll probably need to book well in advance - it's very popular.
I did this in 1997, and recommend it. Chuck is a great guy, and the flying (and sight-seeing) is fun.
One word of caution.
Some people say that, because you fly from the Left seat, the CAA won't count the hours as P1. The contrary argument is that because you're flying an 'N' Reg a/c on your FAA endorsement, the FAA Regs apply and the hours can be counted.
I've not checked the Regs to see which argument is correct because I did it to gain experience, and wasn't hours building for a licence/rating.
It seems from your post that the hours building aspect is important so you might want to check the position with someone who knows the CAA Regs. (Cardinal won't be able to answer this question.)
PS
If you contact Chuck, pleae give him my regards. I was there in 1997.)
Tudor Owen
[ 29 September 2001: Message edited by: Flying Lawyer ]
Cardinal is owned by Chuck Street who as 'Commander Chuck' provides traffic reports for Kiss FM, one of the LA radio stations.
The helicopter, a JetRanger, is based at Fullerton airfield (not far from Nott's Berry Farm/DisneyLand if you know the area).
You fly two slots a day (6-9 am and 3-5 pm) and cover a large area, South to Orange County and North to Malibu.
'Comfort breaks' during the shifts are taken at various sites which give you practice of helipad, pinnacle and confined area landings.
You can book up as many slots as you want or, as I did, the full week. You'll probably need to book well in advance - it's very popular.
I did this in 1997, and recommend it. Chuck is a great guy, and the flying (and sight-seeing) is fun.
One word of caution.
Some people say that, because you fly from the Left seat, the CAA won't count the hours as P1. The contrary argument is that because you're flying an 'N' Reg a/c on your FAA endorsement, the FAA Regs apply and the hours can be counted.
I've not checked the Regs to see which argument is correct because I did it to gain experience, and wasn't hours building for a licence/rating.
It seems from your post that the hours building aspect is important so you might want to check the position with someone who knows the CAA Regs. (Cardinal won't be able to answer this question.)
PS
If you contact Chuck, pleae give him my regards. I was there in 1997.)
Tudor Owen
[ 29 September 2001: Message edited by: Flying Lawyer ]
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I flew with Commander Chuck earlier this year. I haven't heard of one person not enjoying it. Even if it doesn't count towards qualifying hours, it's worth doing it, IMHO. More info in Tudor's coverage in August's issue of Pilot, there is also a report in the October issue of Today'sPILOT. Feel free to e-mail me for contact numbers etc.
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Hourbuilding in california....
Is there any thruth in the Myth that certain Companies allow Low time pilots to hour build whilst operating the News/traffic flights in California?? If so would anyone be kind enough to forward any details and contacts they have please... I am most interested in the Jetranger and the R44 (If thy use them??)
Thanks in advance...
Thanks in advance...
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It's no myth.
I know of two places where hoursbuilding is available.
Try Commander Chuck who flies a JetRanger out of Fullerton Airport which is not far from Disneyland / Notts Berry Farm.
There is another place at Van Nuys. I can't remember the name, but I'm sure someone will know.
Both cover the same area.
I flew with Chuck a few years ago. The cost then was $100 per hour.
A word of caution.
Some people say the CAA will not allow the hours towards a licence/rating because you fly from the right seat. I didn't research the point because I did it to build experience, not hours.
I don't know whether this is true or a myth. It sounds absurd, but that doesn't mean ........ etc etc
I know of two places where hoursbuilding is available.
Try Commander Chuck who flies a JetRanger out of Fullerton Airport which is not far from Disneyland / Notts Berry Farm.
There is another place at Van Nuys. I can't remember the name, but I'm sure someone will know.
Both cover the same area.
I flew with Chuck a few years ago. The cost then was $100 per hour.
A word of caution.
Some people say the CAA will not allow the hours towards a licence/rating because you fly from the right seat. I didn't research the point because I did it to build experience, not hours.
I don't know whether this is true or a myth. It sounds absurd, but that doesn't mean ........ etc etc
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The other option at Van Nuys can be arranged through Group 3 Aviation - talk to Peter Lowry. It is also JetRanger flying. I spent a couple of weeks there a number of years ago. Well worth while but I believe Flying Lawyer is correct that the CAA take the view that it cannot count as PIC time (as far as UK requirements are concerned). In their view only one person can count a flight as PIC - normally the one who signs the techlog
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Here in the States, there are many ways to skin a cat......Sounds like the question originates in the UK, so flying here is not the first hurdle. Getting here with the blessing of INS(Immigration) and the persmission to fly/work so is first. Then one can take a Foreign license down to the FAA and recieve FREE of Charge a US FAA Private Helicopters License based on ones Current Foreign license. Then comes the fun stuff with INS again. You must have a work permit to fly for hire also a US Commerical Pilots License. Question is if your not getting paid, then do you need a commercial or work permit??? Its a gray area.. Either way if you want the time you can figure out how.
Fly lawyer, jump on in.......
Fly lawyer, jump on in.......
