Hughes 269/Schweizer 300 series
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MEL Schweizer 300 / 269 C
There seems to be a MEL for every single helicopter in the universe but I just can't get my hands on one for the Hughes/Schweizer 300. Any help???
Thanks in advance,
Frank
Thanks in advance,
Frank
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Perhaps the lack of a MEL for the H269 series is due to the fact that it would be a very short list!
-landing light
-VSI
for the CBi
-Low RPM warning horn
-rotor autoengage system
Anything else would be equipment added optionally and/or aftermarket.
Certainly there is nothing stopping an operator from developing a MEL, but there's not much to be gained from the exercise.
-landing light
-VSI
for the CBi
-Low RPM warning horn
-rotor autoengage system
Anything else would be equipment added optionally and/or aftermarket.
Certainly there is nothing stopping an operator from developing a MEL, but there's not much to be gained from the exercise.
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Minimum equiptment list for the 300 CB
Manifold Pressure Guage
Ammeter
Rotor Tachometer
Carb Heat Guage
Cylinder Head Temp Guage
Outside Air Temp Guage
Warning Lights
All theses in addition to your standard VFR / VFR Night / IFR equiptment list.
LB
Manifold Pressure Guage
Ammeter
Rotor Tachometer
Carb Heat Guage
Cylinder Head Temp Guage
Outside Air Temp Guage
Warning Lights
All theses in addition to your standard VFR / VFR Night / IFR equiptment list.
LB
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Hi Lightning,
Be careful not to confuse required equipment (Part 27 or the Schweizer equipment list) with an MEL. Put in somewhat oversimplified terms, the MEL is a list of the equipment than can be non-functional but still allow the aircraft to fly. For the Schweizer, the equipment you list is required by FAR Part 27 (except for the OAT, which is on the TCDS Equipment List as required equipment), so could not be on a MEL.
Be careful not to confuse required equipment (Part 27 or the Schweizer equipment list) with an MEL. Put in somewhat oversimplified terms, the MEL is a list of the equipment than can be non-functional but still allow the aircraft to fly. For the Schweizer, the equipment you list is required by FAR Part 27 (except for the OAT, which is on the TCDS Equipment List as required equipment), so could not be on a MEL.
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Hi!
Flingwing is right. But also, the MEL is only connected to commercial ops. The MEL is in the operators ops-manual and it may vary depending on the task at hand. Different MEL for charter and firefighting. The list has to be approved by the authorities and can use the manufacturers master minimum equipment list as a guide and has to be more restrictive than, or the same as, the MMEL.
It would be a very stupid thing to put in the MEL, but just as an example: If the MEL says landinglight must work, then no flying with a broken one even if it's broad daylight. Don't have to worry about that if it's a private flight though.
The MEL is aircraft and operator-specific so you would have to find an operator who have bothered (or been forced) to make a list for the 269.
This is according to the JARs as I recall them, but...
/2beers
Flingwing is right. But also, the MEL is only connected to commercial ops. The MEL is in the operators ops-manual and it may vary depending on the task at hand. Different MEL for charter and firefighting. The list has to be approved by the authorities and can use the manufacturers master minimum equipment list as a guide and has to be more restrictive than, or the same as, the MMEL.
It would be a very stupid thing to put in the MEL, but just as an example: If the MEL says landinglight must work, then no flying with a broken one even if it's broad daylight. Don't have to worry about that if it's a private flight though.
The MEL is aircraft and operator-specific so you would have to find an operator who have bothered (or been forced) to make a list for the 269.
This is according to the JARs as I recall them, but...
/2beers
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MEL - H269
Hey Spunk you slimy devil (Great name !!)
I was staggered to read that you couldn't find an MEL for the 269 and after some digging around at my usual sources I have to agree with you !! How queer !!
As an ops manager this is a process I am currently going through myself, so can sympathise with your pain.
I am lucky insofar as for the fleet I operate a Master MEL (MMEL) is available for all types, on the CAA website - however NO 269 !!
A brief search through the FAA site also revealed a lack of info... BUT (and its a good looking but !) ... I did find the following site http://www.opspecs.com/melpolicytalks/ which lists all the final policy letters for each ATA code, and with some head scratching and application to your own operation you may be able to produce your own (based on another known type).
Who knows - if it's good enough you may be able to sell it back to the Aviation Authorities who clearly think that nobody performs commercial ops in a H269 !!
Good luck.
Its always better to be pissed off than pissed on !!
I was staggered to read that you couldn't find an MEL for the 269 and after some digging around at my usual sources I have to agree with you !! How queer !!
As an ops manager this is a process I am currently going through myself, so can sympathise with your pain.
I am lucky insofar as for the fleet I operate a Master MEL (MMEL) is available for all types, on the CAA website - however NO 269 !!
A brief search through the FAA site also revealed a lack of info... BUT (and its a good looking but !) ... I did find the following site http://www.opspecs.com/melpolicytalks/ which lists all the final policy letters for each ATA code, and with some head scratching and application to your own operation you may be able to produce your own (based on another known type).
Who knows - if it's good enough you may be able to sell it back to the Aviation Authorities who clearly think that nobody performs commercial ops in a H269 !!
Good luck.
Its always better to be pissed off than pissed on !!
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Thanks for your replys so far guys. I found another useful advice in someone else's ops manual. Trying to quote and translate: " As there is no officially approved MEL for the Hughes 269 (neither from the FAA nor the JAA) the operator is exempt from providing a MEL for the above aircraft."
Now that sounds like a reasonable solution for me.
@ FlightOops: Never thought of that meaning of the name before, I swear. When I logged in for the first time I was eating my favourite liquorice called "Spunk". That's when the name was born
Next week I'll turn in all the manuals at the local aviation authority. Let's find out if they'll approve them and hand out the desired AOC.
Now that sounds like a reasonable solution for me.
@ FlightOops: Never thought of that meaning of the name before, I swear. When I logged in for the first time I was eating my favourite liquorice called "Spunk". That's when the name was born
Next week I'll turn in all the manuals at the local aviation authority. Let's find out if they'll approve them and hand out the desired AOC.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kings Caple, Ross-on-Wye.orPiccots End. Hertfordshire
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Schweizer 300 Check Lists
Just a small word of caution when buying, 'locally produced' check lists.
The UK AAIB's view is that unless these include EVERY item exactly as produced in the PFL, they are not legal and would come under the microscope following an accident. (possiby adversely)
I checked with 15 pilots and all but one said he would use a 'locally produced' item. 14 of us badly wrong !! With the benefit of hindsight, I now use the PFL schedule.
DennisK
The UK AAIB's view is that unless these include EVERY item exactly as produced in the PFL, they are not legal and would come under the microscope following an accident. (possiby adversely)
I checked with 15 pilots and all but one said he would use a 'locally produced' item. 14 of us badly wrong !! With the benefit of hindsight, I now use the PFL schedule.
DennisK
PM me and I will send you one that is a copy from the Flight manual. I have added some extras that engineer suggested. It is in word format so you can add your own bits to it.
It is best to personalise a checklist to each ac for students. Before I am shouted down of the 2 I own, prime one for 3 seconds and it will never start, prime it for 6 secs - fires every time ! The other, prime for more than 3 secs and it will flood !
It is best to personalise a checklist to each ac for students. Before I am shouted down of the 2 I own, prime one for 3 seconds and it will never start, prime it for 6 secs - fires every time ! The other, prime for more than 3 secs and it will flood !
Join Date: Nov 2003
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H269 training acft neary Sydney Oz.
I have been asked if there were any H300's in use for training near Sydney Australia. Anyone aware of any in use that are serviceable????
The Eye.
The Eye.
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Catseye
Aerowasp Helicopters near Wollongong ( approx 1 hour south of the Sydney CBD) provide training on the 300 and to my knowledge are the only company in the Sydney area who do so.
Chief Pilot is Peter and you can phone him on 02 4256 8444.
You can check out the website by going to www.google.com.au and typing in 'Aerowasp Helicopters".
Any further info required then PM me.
Cheers
heli_spy
Aerowasp Helicopters near Wollongong ( approx 1 hour south of the Sydney CBD) provide training on the 300 and to my knowledge are the only company in the Sydney area who do so.
Chief Pilot is Peter and you can phone him on 02 4256 8444.
You can check out the website by going to www.google.com.au and typing in 'Aerowasp Helicopters".
Any further info required then PM me.
Cheers
heli_spy
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Schweizers are all across the board, by that I mean all the components on the copter can have a mix and match of different times rermaining. Unlike the R22's where everthing is done at 2200 hours at a huge cost.
Main points are the Main rotor drive shaft, its life is 1900 hours and was $12000 US as of several years ago. Blades last 5500 hours but can go bad before that and they are 14,000 each, you have three of them.
Several years ago Air Flite of Oklahoma faxed me some time sheets showing the life limited component, useful life, and cost to replace. By getting the aircrafts componet times you could calc what a used helicopter would cost run. It can be staggering until you start replacing some of those high priced and due early compoenets.
Also, if you mess up and auto and bend the afy cross beam that is $4,000, on a R22 it's a 1,000.
Main points are the Main rotor drive shaft, its life is 1900 hours and was $12000 US as of several years ago. Blades last 5500 hours but can go bad before that and they are 14,000 each, you have three of them.
Several years ago Air Flite of Oklahoma faxed me some time sheets showing the life limited component, useful life, and cost to replace. By getting the aircrafts componet times you could calc what a used helicopter would cost run. It can be staggering until you start replacing some of those high priced and due early compoenets.
Also, if you mess up and auto and bend the afy cross beam that is $4,000, on a R22 it's a 1,000.
I remember also having seen a list (maybe it was AirFlite!) that had all the time life components in a spreadsheet where you could insert hours and get remaining hours in a easy way & cost of the components.
With a little work you can make it yourself, just download Schweizer price catalog from the website.
With a little work you can make it yourself, just download Schweizer price catalog from the website.
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Here it is in full with hours, U.S. Dollars are totaled (i.e., qty x cost) but are 2003 prices:
Lycoming Engine 1500hrs $21038
Main Rotor Transmission 3000hrs $6300
Tail Rotor Transmission 3000hrs $4924
Upper Pulley Bearing 3000hr $574
Lower Pulley Bearing 1800hrs $1027
Idler Pulley Bearing 3000hrs $406
Carrier Assy, M/R Transm 6000hrs $3268
M/R Transm. Pinion 6000hrs $6036
M/R Hub & Shaft Assy 1900hrs $11801
M/R Mast 13590hrs $8080
M/R Thrust Bearing 3000hrs $1553
M/R Pitch Bearing Shaft 3600hrs $6311
M/R Blades 5500hrs $40961
Tailboom Assembly 4200hrs $5586
Horizontal Stabilizer 4200hrs $2659
Vertical Stabilizer 20540hrs $3786
Tail Rotor Driveshaft 6000hrs $4152
T/R GearBox Input Gear 8600hrs $2586
Elastomeric M/R Damper 6000hrs $10170
Tail Rotor Blades 9000hrs $11,440
T/R Blade Reten. Straps 5100hrs $1,035
Lower Pulley Coup. Shaft 6000hrs $1,671
Tailboom Strut Assy 10700hrs $2,276
Lycoming Engine 1500hrs $21038
Main Rotor Transmission 3000hrs $6300
Tail Rotor Transmission 3000hrs $4924
Upper Pulley Bearing 3000hr $574
Lower Pulley Bearing 1800hrs $1027
Idler Pulley Bearing 3000hrs $406
Carrier Assy, M/R Transm 6000hrs $3268
M/R Transm. Pinion 6000hrs $6036
M/R Hub & Shaft Assy 1900hrs $11801
M/R Mast 13590hrs $8080
M/R Thrust Bearing 3000hrs $1553
M/R Pitch Bearing Shaft 3600hrs $6311
M/R Blades 5500hrs $40961
Tailboom Assembly 4200hrs $5586
Horizontal Stabilizer 4200hrs $2659
Vertical Stabilizer 20540hrs $3786
Tail Rotor Driveshaft 6000hrs $4152
T/R GearBox Input Gear 8600hrs $2586
Elastomeric M/R Damper 6000hrs $10170
Tail Rotor Blades 9000hrs $11,440
T/R Blade Reten. Straps 5100hrs $1,035
Lower Pulley Coup. Shaft 6000hrs $1,671
Tailboom Strut Assy 10700hrs $2,276
Last edited by Cross-eyed; 12th Jun 2005 at 01:04.
Hmm...
www.sacusa.com pricebook say´s that basic overhaul for a MRGB is $7.914.78.-
And that is the absolute minimum if nothing else in the gearbox needs to be replaced.
I think Cross-eyed that your price of "Main Rotor Transmission 3000hrs $6300" is a bit outdated!
"edited: ohh sorry just now saw that your prices were 2003 prices
"
www.sacusa.com pricebook say´s that basic overhaul for a MRGB is $7.914.78.-
And that is the absolute minimum if nothing else in the gearbox needs to be replaced.
I think Cross-eyed that your price of "Main Rotor Transmission 3000hrs $6300" is a bit outdated!
"edited: ohh sorry just now saw that your prices were 2003 prices
"
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schweizer/hughes 269A - yeah or nay ?
Hi All, I've been offered a share in a 1968 269 'A' model.....and I'm in a bit of a quandary as to whether to go ahead.......some say yes....some say no......more opinions welcome...thanks.