Non-Compulsory Reasons for Ramp Turn Back

[titaniumwings]

Notwithstanding the guided and compulsory reasons (eg MEL, dispatch, bomb threat, unruly passenger), what other reasons would you return to the gate?

This question seems fairly easy to answer if it is in the air but would the totally same approach be taken for the ground return? Is there any guide to be shared?

A few examples would be travelling documents, medicine, a passenger received call of a family member's accident and imminent demise (distraught but not unruly) -(just before the silent phone check). Would you return to the gate?

Thanks for sharing.

[Skyjob]

Can't think of a guide, but common sense springs to mind.
Any situation that warrants a return is one for which continuation of the flight would potentially be more unsafe or problematic then could've been avoided by taking a delay in some cases. There are many factors which may come in play including curfew, health, handling, fuel, CTOT, prior delay incurred, FDP, etc.
There is no guide I imagine as one guide cannot contain information on all variables... Apply some common sense and ask yourself the question: "what would I think of this situation if I were on the other end of the equation"

[titaniumwings]

I may not have made it clear. I meant situation where you are not compelled to return.

Eg if your passenger received news that her mother met an accident and is in critical condition and she wish to offload herself, after you started taxy, to see her for one last time, would you return to the gate?

[Bealzebub]

And still Skyjob gave you an excellent reply encapsulated in the first sentence.

The guide is good judgment and common sense as made by any given individual on any given day. Any discretionary call is balanced against a whole raft of influential factors. Captains are promoted based on significant assessment of their ability to make good judgment calls in difficult circumstances. It doesn't follow that there is a prescriptive formula. Each situation will be different, and different individuals may well make different calls based on their own experience and judgment.

"What if" scenarios are fairly meaningless without a broader and complete picture into which to place them. Even then, there is often no "right or wrong" answer.

[akindofmagic]

It's called decision making. It's an incredibly sad state of affairs when pilots expect and demand an exhaustive guide on what to do in every conceivable situation. A sign of the world we live in I suppose, where nobody is able to exercise even the barest minimum common sense, out of fear of "being wrong". Pathetic.

[titaniumwings]

I wish to draw your attention to the word non-compulsory. The nature of flying is such that there is no exhaustive formula to cover all scenarios.

I am also not asking for scenarios covered by policies or procedures. Those need not judgement. There is no choice or judgement to be made for curfew, flight time limitation, aircraft defect, passenger's medical emergency etc. Do note I am talking about ramp turn back.

I sincerely believe that the scenarios that I have given are open to different judgement and decisions. For those who find it worthwhile to participate in a constructive discussion please give your views on the scenarios and preferably the accompanying reasons or considerations.

For those who think my scenario is straightforward, sorry to have wasted your time, please move on. I need judgement and views on the scenarios not of the question. Why not give it a try and see whether your common sense answer is universal?

You have started taxy:
1. Passenger clearly remembering leaving passport at the airport seating area.
2. Passenger clearly remembering leaving medicine for heart condition that may be critically needed in her check in luggage
3. Passenger received news of family member critically involved in accident and request for off-load.

Please don't worry, there is no right or wrong in any answers. General principle of thoughts can be voiced as views, universal exhaustive formula (if it ever exist) is not needed. If there are significant influencing factors you can list it as consideration.


ps: my junior colleague asked me how to 'fly' the aircraft in an abnormal situation. I answered aviate, navigate then attend to the problem with appropriate guidance, in that order. I would then apply the philosophy to illustrate to him the use and give him another scenario and asked him to apply the same methodology.

[wiggy]

Bearing in mind even Neil Armstrong was on record about reserving the right to be "wishy washy about a choice.. " (of the landing area) I'll offer the folowing..:

Q1. Where are we? Where are we going? What's the cost v benefit to the company of further delay vs. picking up a fine at the destination? ( tight connections, curfews etc etc - ? If possible might be worth contacting destination ops for more info before making a decision.

Q2: How critical is the medicine? Do you have similar in the Aircraft first aid kit? ( might mean another call, this time to medical advisors, if available, before making a decision)

Q3: Probably have to have a heart of stone not to turn back for that unless you're trying to escape civil war or tornado...( gretaer risk to the many etc if you go back). Presumably moot since we all know phones are supposed to be off early on in procedings, but in similar context I know of a company flight being delayed because a crew member got v bad news during boarding..

Hope that's vague enough with enough might and perhapses...

[titaniumwings]

More than enough. Constructive comments and discussion points.

Some point I thought of, some points I didn't. Maybe not everyone will take every point but the points did expand my mind. Greater risk to many is a well established principle that helped much in many scenarios of decision making. Sincere thanks and applause you for sharing.

[Meikleour]

Had a male passenger suffer a panic attack after push-back and just prior to taxy. He could barely control himself when I went back to talk to him - so back onto stand and offload. This was before companies were so paranoid about crew leaving the cockpit.

[titaniumwings]

Interesting. Must have been really bad. Possibly with the growing affluence,p prevalence and ease of plane travel such cases are getting more rare.

Thanks again for sharing.