Heavy Hot Departure
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Heavy Hot Departure
Hi all. SLF here with a wee question. Was on a fight out of Corfu last night, which, due to high ambient temp and relatively short runway (all explained to the cabin, face to face, by an extremely professional and reassuring captain) was unable to load sufficient fuel to complete journey to the Scottish airport destination, and would be fuelling again in Venice. Obviously everything went to plan, no problems at all.
But I did wonder, are the departures from Corfu normally so close to the performance limits (jet 2 Airbus) as 30 Deg ambients aren't exactly unknown in Greece.
Also, just how uncomfortable would it have been for the flight crew in the event of perhaps an engine issue during climb out, or just before V1
Again, no drama. Perfect handling and comms from the excellent crew
Please move if in wrong place mods
But I did wonder, are the departures from Corfu normally so close to the performance limits (jet 2 Airbus) as 30 Deg ambients aren't exactly unknown in Greece.
Also, just how uncomfortable would it have been for the flight crew in the event of perhaps an engine issue during climb out, or just before V1
Again, no drama. Perfect handling and comms from the excellent crew
Please move if in wrong place mods
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Hi Fridgedoctor,
In short, yes the A320 is quite close to its performance limit departing CFU on a relatively long sector such as Scotland. Also bear in mind the wind conditions (were the winds calm?) and was there a low pressure system over the island? These will both conspire to reduce the performance of the aircraft. The aircraft may have had a technical defect which would also artificially reduce its allowable takeoff weight.
Finally, what about the weather conditions in Scotland? Perhaps the crew needed to select an alternate airport further away than they'd usually do which would require more diversion fuel - again eating into the slim weight margins.
One other thing which may have messed things up is if the aircraft had an artificially reduced maximum takeoff weight (to save on enroute navigational fees). I think this is unlikely for Corfu but it can sometimes happen on longer sectors (either the airline will take a gamble if the weather conditions dictate that 90%+ of the time they'll get away with it, or there was a last minute aircraft swap).
With the fuel stop, Venice was probably chosen for fuel price and aerodrome availability plus being on the approximate route back home. You wouldn't want to do fuel a stop close to your destination as you'd be carrying extra fuel to carry the fuel if that makes sense. Halfway is the most efficient.
Hope that helps.
Nick
In short, yes the A320 is quite close to its performance limit departing CFU on a relatively long sector such as Scotland. Also bear in mind the wind conditions (were the winds calm?) and was there a low pressure system over the island? These will both conspire to reduce the performance of the aircraft. The aircraft may have had a technical defect which would also artificially reduce its allowable takeoff weight.
Finally, what about the weather conditions in Scotland? Perhaps the crew needed to select an alternate airport further away than they'd usually do which would require more diversion fuel - again eating into the slim weight margins.
One other thing which may have messed things up is if the aircraft had an artificially reduced maximum takeoff weight (to save on enroute navigational fees). I think this is unlikely for Corfu but it can sometimes happen on longer sectors (either the airline will take a gamble if the weather conditions dictate that 90%+ of the time they'll get away with it, or there was a last minute aircraft swap).
With the fuel stop, Venice was probably chosen for fuel price and aerodrome availability plus being on the approximate route back home. You wouldn't want to do fuel a stop close to your destination as you'd be carrying extra fuel to carry the fuel if that makes sense. Halfway is the most efficient.
Hope that helps.
Nick
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My feeling...
Is this a leased in Titan A320 (Did it have black stars on the tail?)
I'm thinking that it may not have been the intended type for the season, but simply leased in as to cover operational requirements. As a result, it is doing what it can, inside the safety envelope...
Is this a leased in Titan A320 (Did it have black stars on the tail?)
I'm thinking that it may not have been the intended type for the season, but simply leased in as to cover operational requirements. As a result, it is doing what it can, inside the safety envelope...
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Taking off to the north in CFU the max take off weight is quite limited by the terrain profile. We have some relatively complicated engine out procedures to follow in case we have an engine failure during take off. They're all briefed prior to departure but requires, as you hinted, accurate handling on a performance limited departure. The built in margins in the engine out profile aren't great.
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There are quite different engine ratings out there for the A320 family, some are more prone to difficulties than other. For example we use A320s with 27k rated CFMs and 23.5k rated CFMs, the latter one will struggle in even moderate temperatures.
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Hi everyone, thanks for the detailed informative replies. Yes it was a Titan working as Jet2. I hadn't even thought about the prospect of alternates being under poor weather, good point. I think Venice made good sense also as they use Venice so have handling facilities there. We were on the ground 44 mins which seemed pretty good going, Captain Lee was happy enough with it. I was surprised we remained on the aircraft, but glad. Our taxi driver (Corfu end) back to the airport seemed to think that the road they close at the end of the runway for departures and arrivals was to be permanently closed in the future.
(I've kinda busted the closure in a hire car before, by mistake, as it was just a khaki uniformed guy waving his arms! I was first car to get to him. Oops)
Ps. Unsure of pressure but it was stifling and yes, flat calm. I also noticed the mountain you point at on that departure. Eeek!
Thanks again
(I've kinda busted the closure in a hire car before, by mistake, as it was just a khaki uniformed guy waving his arms! I was first car to get to him. Oops)
Ps. Unsure of pressure but it was stifling and yes, flat calm. I also noticed the mountain you point at on that departure. Eeek!
Thanks again
Last edited by Fridgedoctor; 2nd Sep 2015 at 07:43.
