Is it time for EASA to adopt the american 1500hr rule
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The largest LLC in Indonesia is Lion Air with Boeing 737 series and A320. Currently they are recruiting cadets from Indonesian local flying schools. Very reliable anecdotal evidence reveals such is the critical shortage of flight crew on the 737 that the company is taking cadets from local flying schools with 80 hours on Cessna 172 and no twin engine time and after simulator training are employed as first officer 737. Scary stuff indeed...
Scary, indeed!
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The license is good ONLY on 1 type and for 1 airline. There is NO valid upgrade path to ATP and Captain (other than paying for their own on the side, which they likely cannot afford) of which I am aware
You need to do a little more research.
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OK...
Where are the upgrade path and requirements for an MPL given? Do you have a reference document from an FAA/EASA equivalent national agency available?
I don't know how the MPL is going to get the required instrument, solo, and PIC time, especially when the airline prohibits him from taking off or landing the airplane for 5 years. I also don't know how SIC/PF time can be considered as PIC time in this case, since he has NO experience in decision-making...
So far:
IFALPA Position Paper 15POS03, 17 June 2014
Where are the upgrade path and requirements for an MPL given? Do you have a reference document from an FAA/EASA equivalent national agency available?
I don't know how the MPL is going to get the required instrument, solo, and PIC time, especially when the airline prohibits him from taking off or landing the airplane for 5 years. I also don't know how SIC/PF time can be considered as PIC time in this case, since he has NO experience in decision-making...
So far:
A significant portion of MPL training emphasizes the development of FMS and autopilot flying skills, but there is an observed need to improve basic flying skills in MPL graduates. Industry stakeholders have concluded that there is a system-wide decrease in the basic flying skills of experienced pilots attributed to the overreliance on automation to fly airplanes. . .
MPL programmes rely on simulator devices for the majority of time-in-training, and while simulators are adequate for most skill development, they are inadequate for providing real world exposure, or building the situational awareness and experience necessary for sound judgment and decision making - the key building blocks of airmanship. . .
Training programs of most airlines select and train their candidates towards captaincy. Current MPL programs do not reflect this
intended career path, nor do they provide the necessary tools for an evolution towards it.
MPL programmes rely on simulator devices for the majority of time-in-training, and while simulators are adequate for most skill development, they are inadequate for providing real world exposure, or building the situational awareness and experience necessary for sound judgment and decision making - the key building blocks of airmanship. . .
Training programs of most airlines select and train their candidates towards captaincy. Current MPL programs do not reflect this
intended career path, nor do they provide the necessary tools for an evolution towards it.
Last edited by Intruder; 6th Apr 2015 at 02:43.
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For EASA stuff check out PART-FCL on their website. MPL students in europe fly as completely normal FOs sharing all the duties including take offs and landings up to the maximum allowed limits for that airplane. Only restrictions are the same as for other FOs, for example low vis landings and take offs with RVRs of less than 400m.
After 1500 hours the MPL can get a normal ATPL, all his requirements are met during his training and/or line operation with the possible exception of PIC time. For that the MPL holder has to get PIC credits through an approved PICUS program. In the UK as the most relaxed state that is simply done by a letter from flight ops, other european countries require a bit more structured approach in which all decisions are made by the FO alone during his PICUS sectors, PICUS has to be done during PM and PF sectors. As some european countries use COP and PIC entries for ratings, the ATPL check has to be done from the left seat ending in a PIC rating, so there are a couple more requirements, however those are identical to normal CPL candidates that want to get the ATPL.
As for training, that depends how much a company is willing to fork out for it, the "light twin" that Lufthansa uses for example is a Cessna CJ1, others use indeed just normal piston twins. There is no restriction on the number of typeratings, we had some MPL FOs typed on three different aircraft within the first year due to SNAFUs in pilot management.
As much as i do appreciate the work done in IFALPA and how much i know about work in ECA and on a national level, that statements is simply wrong. It might not be the same everywhere of course, but those MPL programs i know actually do select and train their candidates for future captaincy. Of course, candidates from those programs can expect to fly as FO or Senior FO for around 15 years before they are up for an upgrade.
After 1500 hours the MPL can get a normal ATPL, all his requirements are met during his training and/or line operation with the possible exception of PIC time. For that the MPL holder has to get PIC credits through an approved PICUS program. In the UK as the most relaxed state that is simply done by a letter from flight ops, other european countries require a bit more structured approach in which all decisions are made by the FO alone during his PICUS sectors, PICUS has to be done during PM and PF sectors. As some european countries use COP and PIC entries for ratings, the ATPL check has to be done from the left seat ending in a PIC rating, so there are a couple more requirements, however those are identical to normal CPL candidates that want to get the ATPL.
As for training, that depends how much a company is willing to fork out for it, the "light twin" that Lufthansa uses for example is a Cessna CJ1, others use indeed just normal piston twins. There is no restriction on the number of typeratings, we had some MPL FOs typed on three different aircraft within the first year due to SNAFUs in pilot management.
Training programs of most airlines select and train their candidates towards captaincy. Current MPL programs do not reflect this
intended career path, nor do they provide the necessary tools for an evolution towards it.
intended career path, nor do they provide the necessary tools for an evolution towards it.
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I don't know how the MPL is going to get the required instrument, solo, and PIC time, especially when the airline prohibits him from taking off or landing the airplane for 5 years. I also don't know how SIC/PF time can be considered as PIC time in this case, since he has NO experience in decision-making...
The airline doesn't prohibit the MPL first officer from taking off or landing at all. In all likelihood they are going to perform half of all the available take offs and landings they are involved with on a day to day basis. Obviously there are early restrictions on cross wind limits and LVP minima in that respect, but for all practical intents and purposes they are much the same as any other F/O.
I am not entirely sure what you mean by PIC time, since by definition only the captain would normally be the PIC. However on the assumption you are actually referring to PF (Pilot Flying) as acting PIC, then again there is no difference than with any other F/O. Decision making is totally encouraged, promoted and mentored throughout. The MPL holder is tested to the same standard of acceptability in respect of these items as would any other pilot be. The same progressive standards of acceptability are applied throughout their early careers until they hold a full ATPL, and the licence title then becomes moot.
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This is moving away from a discussion about EASA adoption of a minimum 1500 hours towards an MPL debate which, I feel is probably sensible as 1500 hours won't be accepted in the EU as MPL is a structured, monitored and more appropriate alternative. As has been said, the landscape between the U.S. and E.U. is so starkly different that a requirement for 1500 hours simply couldn't be supported; there aren't enough GA or 'other' types of flying to generate that amount of hours to satisfy the airlines with sufficient F/O's.
I see Lion Air mentioned - they offer P2F as well don't they?
Mention made of the 'old' CAP509 CPL/IR cadet route vs the 'short' course alternative and quality vs quantity etc: sadly those days are far behind us, and in my view, this is the where the regulators need to look - I won't be drawn into saying more other than to add that prior to employment with Colgan, Rebecca Shaw (nee Morris) was a flying instructor training ab-initio JAA cadet pilots for a well known JAA Integrated FTO - JAA qualified QED. I wonder how many F/O's flying Boeing and Airbus types around Europe today were taught by her?
I see Lion Air mentioned - they offer P2F as well don't they?
Mention made of the 'old' CAP509 CPL/IR cadet route vs the 'short' course alternative and quality vs quantity etc: sadly those days are far behind us, and in my view, this is the where the regulators need to look - I won't be drawn into saying more other than to add that prior to employment with Colgan, Rebecca Shaw (nee Morris) was a flying instructor training ab-initio JAA cadet pilots for a well known JAA Integrated FTO - JAA qualified QED. I wonder how many F/O's flying Boeing and Airbus types around Europe today were taught by her?
