Thomas Cook TCX1639 Low fuel divert 20/3/15
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Piltdown Man; 100,000 flights; 20 mins per flight, looks to me like 2 million minutes.
£2m for 2 million minutes looks to me like £1 per minute, £60 per hour. Quite cheap for carrying 600 Kgs extra, I would have thought, but I don't now have the resources to work it out properly.
John Smith, thanks for the info, we live and learn. But how effin' pointless to carry on calling it "discretionary" when it's rostered in. As always, it sounds like trying to escape from reality by not calling a spade a spade.
What, every evening? Is this to even out wear at each end? Well I never!
Presumably a very long flight would have no holding fuel at all, while a nice short flight arrives with much more. It's certainly a fresh approach to to the calculation of fuel reserves.
£2m for 2 million minutes looks to me like £1 per minute, £60 per hour. Quite cheap for carrying 600 Kgs extra, I would have thought, but I don't now have the resources to work it out properly.
John Smith, thanks for the info, we live and learn. But how effin' pointless to carry on calling it "discretionary" when it's rostered in. As always, it sounds like trying to escape from reality by not calling a spade a spade.
LGW change runways in the evening which can take 20 minutes.
It is not unusual for an aircraft operating such a long flight (HRG-LGW) to not have much holding fuel.
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Capot - I was calculating the cost of carrying 20 minutes of additional fuel for every flight. We were doing different sums.
Motorizer - The cost of buying and carrying the extra fuel would be less than the cost of a diversion. I haven't a clue as to what the cost of that would be. But I feel certain that we are talking about hundreds and not thousands.
You can also be certain that your diversion was not done lightly. These things are a right royal pain. And whilst a change of runway doesn't take 20 minutes, ATC are sometimes reluctant to give a lesser, more realistic answer. Probably because they are told to do so. But you have to act with the information you are given and this crew reacted according to the information they were given.
Possibly but the gap between aircraft is about 2-3 minutes so the effect is minimal. What buggers things up is ATC having to organise a one-off. And then have to deal with everyone else crying "foul" or asking for the same. The only way out is to declare an emergency - and the subsequent paperwork has to match the declared event. And your company may well be asked questions they would prefer not to answer.
Motorizer - The cost of buying and carrying the extra fuel would be less than the cost of a diversion. I haven't a clue as to what the cost of that would be. But I feel certain that we are talking about hundreds and not thousands.
You can also be certain that your diversion was not done lightly. These things are a right royal pain. And whilst a change of runway doesn't take 20 minutes, ATC are sometimes reluctant to give a lesser, more realistic answer. Probably because they are told to do so. But you have to act with the information you are given and this crew reacted according to the information they were given.
Am I right in summizing if we had been given a clearance ahead of others then those guys may well have found themselves in an equally tight spot?
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Firstly the -300 can be tight on gas if the flight home is into stronger headwinds than normal.
TCX have a policy of carrying the right amount of fuel. This has been emphasised for years. What they don't want is an extra couple of tonnes for the wife and kids, mainly because if you do that on a regular basis you probably won't carry the extra 4 tonnes when you need it.
Hours only become a real issue when you divert due to the fact that you generally lose around 45 minutes for the extra sector. So although you can just about get back from HRG without the level 2 extension, once you divert have time on the ground and lose 45 minutes then things become a bit tight.
As for runway changes.........I don't know. They generally only happen at LGW due to a change in wind direction!
TCX have a policy of carrying the right amount of fuel. This has been emphasised for years. What they don't want is an extra couple of tonnes for the wife and kids, mainly because if you do that on a regular basis you probably won't carry the extra 4 tonnes when you need it.
Hours only become a real issue when you divert due to the fact that you generally lose around 45 minutes for the extra sector. So although you can just about get back from HRG without the level 2 extension, once you divert have time on the ground and lose 45 minutes then things become a bit tight.
As for runway changes.........I don't know. They generally only happen at LGW due to a change in wind direction!
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That i wouldn't know... I must admit I didn't realise that the 'back up' runway was used as a norm and thought it was only the main runway that was used unless there was some reason it couldn't be.
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On the evening in question 26L was Notamed to close at 21.30, with a ten minute changeover period before 26R comes into use.
I arrived from Egypt with an eta 22.05 and was told by the French to reduce speed to Minimum clean when just north of Paris due to excessive delays inbound to LGW. On handover to London atc we were told to hold at Bexil, after going twice round at Bexil then told to hold at Timba for another 10 mins before being vectored for 26R. I don't know why the delays were so excessive that night as change over to standby runway usually don't cause that much of a problem. Hope that gives more insight into the evenings events.
I arrived from Egypt with an eta 22.05 and was told by the French to reduce speed to Minimum clean when just north of Paris due to excessive delays inbound to LGW. On handover to London atc we were told to hold at Bexil, after going twice round at Bexil then told to hold at Timba for another 10 mins before being vectored for 26R. I don't know why the delays were so excessive that night as change over to standby runway usually don't cause that much of a problem. Hope that gives more insight into the evenings events.
