B737 CL landing technique.
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B737 CL landing technique.
Hello all,
I am in my line training on B737 CL on 3/4/5. I am facing real hardship on landing, one good day everything falls in place and everything is in my control and I land smooth and nice and on some other day everything goes for a toss and I make an un stabilized approach. Is it because every time I fly a different series or is it because of my seating position or a bad day? I really need help from all you people there on what should be done to eliminate that unknown error that creeps in. thank you.
I am in my line training on B737 CL on 3/4/5. I am facing real hardship on landing, one good day everything falls in place and everything is in my control and I land smooth and nice and on some other day everything goes for a toss and I make an un stabilized approach. Is it because every time I fly a different series or is it because of my seating position or a bad day? I really need help from all you people there on what should be done to eliminate that unknown error that creeps in. thank you.
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That factor could be that every 737 feels a little different, one may have tighter controls, another might need more input to achieve the same result. Different loading is another factor of course. What I would recommend is to disengage the automation earlier to get a good feel of the airplane you are flying that day, then you should have a much better chance of a good landing 
At the end of the day you just need to get some experience which is what your training is for. Good luck
At the end of the day you just need to get some experience which is what your training is for. Good luck
Last edited by STBYRUD; 8th Jan 2015 at 10:34.
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Friend
First of all,landing has to do with many things such as,weather conditions
at the time of landing,your day(how you feel) and most ,whether or not
you are stabilized or not.
Landing should be always "positive", nice and smooth is for you or for passengers comfort and don't forget nice and smooth take a lot of runway.
The way you seat or see outside(choosen by you),both will be the same every day and for the rest of your aviation career,so they don't have to do with the way you land.
You should have in mind,always be stabilized,no matter of the weather conditions and get familiarized with the type you fly(this is the reason of line training).Good landings have to do,not only but most of the time with the experience of the pilot.
Just a few words about your inquiry.Any one of us has his/hers way of doing things,pick the best from your line training.
Cheers
First of all,landing has to do with many things such as,weather conditions
at the time of landing,your day(how you feel) and most ,whether or not
you are stabilized or not.
Landing should be always "positive", nice and smooth is for you or for passengers comfort and don't forget nice and smooth take a lot of runway.
The way you seat or see outside(choosen by you),both will be the same every day and for the rest of your aviation career,so they don't have to do with the way you land.
You should have in mind,always be stabilized,no matter of the weather conditions and get familiarized with the type you fly(this is the reason of line training).Good landings have to do,not only but most of the time with the experience of the pilot.
Just a few words about your inquiry.Any one of us has his/hers way of doing things,pick the best from your line training.
Cheers
FlyingStone is very much correct. As regards the seat position. From my experience, a click too high = float and a click too low = crunch.
Of course, spot on also gets those landing results too from time to time
I am not a line trainer or TRE so take my advice with a pinch of salt. Firstly, smoothness of touchdown is a bonus, not a requirement. Your target should be on centreline, on the touchdown markers, pointing straight and with the vertical speed sensible.
If you are not already, scan the VS the whole time. You will spot what the aircraft is doing before the glide slope shows it if you are scanning the VS. If you are there or thereabouts at 50ft the landing is likely to be safe and satisfactory.
Finally, ensure once you cross the threshold you are looking at the far end of the runaway. Looking at the touchdown point doesn't allow you to judge the vertical speed accurately and makes it harder to land the aircraft consistently.
Of course, spot on also gets those landing results too from time to time
I am not a line trainer or TRE so take my advice with a pinch of salt. Firstly, smoothness of touchdown is a bonus, not a requirement. Your target should be on centreline, on the touchdown markers, pointing straight and with the vertical speed sensible.
If you are not already, scan the VS the whole time. You will spot what the aircraft is doing before the glide slope shows it if you are scanning the VS. If you are there or thereabouts at 50ft the landing is likely to be safe and satisfactory.
Finally, ensure once you cross the threshold you are looking at the far end of the runaway. Looking at the touchdown point doesn't allow you to judge the vertical speed accurately and makes it harder to land the aircraft consistently.
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I faced the same problems as yourself when I first started on the 737-300.
I found that the following helped.
Seat Position: Make sure this is the same every time. I'm sure you've found that there is a numbered scale on the height adjust lever - find what works and stick with it. Read the FCTM which gives good advice on where your seat should be positioned to give you the correct sight picture.
During the approach, barring weather, I would imagine you'd be stable by 500 feet. If the automatics are in, when you click them out, you shouldn't need to make any adjustments as the aircraft was previously in trim. I've seen people who then start moving the control column quickly from side to side and fore/aft. These little movements have little effect on the aircraft and will most likely result in pilot induced oscillation and could cause you to become unstable.
At the point you click out, take a deep breath and relax. If you are flying with FD on, keep flying the ILS down. The biggest mistake is opting to go visual and then relaxing the controls and going high on the G/S. Make sure your scan is between the PFD and outside. Bring in the VSI as well to make sure you ROD is constant.
Next time you do an autoland, watch when the thrust levers retard. It's around the 30ft callout. You'll then see the aircraft flare for landing. If you can replicate this, you shouldn't go too far wrong.
I'm sure you'll get plenty of advice. The important thing is to find something which works, stick with it and once you're happy, you can start finessing things. Just remember, a Boeing landing isn't a greaser which you hardly feel.
I found that the following helped.
Seat Position: Make sure this is the same every time. I'm sure you've found that there is a numbered scale on the height adjust lever - find what works and stick with it. Read the FCTM which gives good advice on where your seat should be positioned to give you the correct sight picture.
During the approach, barring weather, I would imagine you'd be stable by 500 feet. If the automatics are in, when you click them out, you shouldn't need to make any adjustments as the aircraft was previously in trim. I've seen people who then start moving the control column quickly from side to side and fore/aft. These little movements have little effect on the aircraft and will most likely result in pilot induced oscillation and could cause you to become unstable.
At the point you click out, take a deep breath and relax. If you are flying with FD on, keep flying the ILS down. The biggest mistake is opting to go visual and then relaxing the controls and going high on the G/S. Make sure your scan is between the PFD and outside. Bring in the VSI as well to make sure you ROD is constant.
Next time you do an autoland, watch when the thrust levers retard. It's around the 30ft callout. You'll then see the aircraft flare for landing. If you can replicate this, you shouldn't go too far wrong.
I'm sure you'll get plenty of advice. The important thing is to find something which works, stick with it and once you're happy, you can start finessing things. Just remember, a Boeing landing isn't a greaser which you hardly feel.
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I note you are flying 3 models. The technique and finesse on a short a/c might not work on a longer model. I flew B733 & B737, then I moved to B738. I banged it in. It is longer. The B733 technique didn't quite work. I adopted my B757 technique, modified for the landing gear length, and found it worked just fine. Therefore I surmise length does matter. That was my experience. There can also be a perceived different at night. Our eyes tell us porkies. Try to be aware if any one model causes more of a problem than another. If not, then think again.
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From my experience - and I still bang it on to the runway on a regular basis - the following is essential:
* Look at the end of the runway. Other people have said the same thing - this is the most important. I never made a bad landing at night onto a runway without centre-line lights because it forces you to look at the end to judge your position.
* Treat every runway the same, regardless of whether it's 1800m or 4000m. Accept that the landing is going to be a "plop" and pretend it's Aberdeen and you've nailed the touchdown zone. It'll be safe and consistent.
It will come with time. Sorry not to be more helpful!
* Look at the end of the runway. Other people have said the same thing - this is the most important. I never made a bad landing at night onto a runway without centre-line lights because it forces you to look at the end to judge your position.
* Treat every runway the same, regardless of whether it's 1800m or 4000m. Accept that the landing is going to be a "plop" and pretend it's Aberdeen and you've nailed the touchdown zone. It'll be safe and consistent.
It will come with time. Sorry not to be more helpful!
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Flare at 20 FT. Hold the pitch attitude until the main wheels touch down. When you're a lot more experienced, you can get away with flaring a little later. Close the thrust levers after you have started the flare and reduce the thrust gradually, so the levers are closed just before touchdown, i.e. Don't slam them closed. Don't close them before the flare or you'll bang it in.
As for the stablised approach, keep the touchdown zone in the same position in the window and keep the rate of descent constant until the flare.
30ft is too high, and you'll thump it in. 20 FT is the number for learning the ropes.
As for the stablised approach, keep the touchdown zone in the same position in the window and keep the rate of descent constant until the flare.
30ft is too high, and you'll thump it in. 20 FT is the number for learning the ropes.
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Where are you looking?
Several years ago I was given the task of helping a new guy learn to land the 747. Every landing was a very different experience. We talked the seat height, seat rake, arm rest up or down. Then I asked him where he was looking and he said over the nose. The conversation continued. Where over the nose? Over the nose at the runway. Flash, flash, how about looking at the far end of the runway and the horizon. Bang, he wired the next couple. So as we get more experience with a type we maybe bring our focus a little closer, but then we start bumping a little harder, time to get back to basics. Never been on the 37, but years of 727 experience. One would have a nice string on the 72 and then bang, drop one in. Each was l little different. Have fun, fly safe and look further down the runway to the horizon and all will be well.
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Overfly the threshold at 50 ft with an N1 consistent with your weight,config,wind and altitude.
Look at unreliable airspeed for an idea.
If you come in with too mych thrust ull float and underthrust ull sink.
Depending on your rate of descent,which normally should be around 700/800 ft/min..while looking at your aiming point,you will see it rise around 30 feet.
This is the time to gently start the flare by increasing the pitch gently and reducing the thrust towards idle while looking down the runway,,,as you have finished the flare,and your horizon doesnt move(no relative movement),you should have touchdown,if not release the elevator force and the aircraft will settle.
If u have difficulty with the visual in the beginning,once u pass the threshold,count 1,2 and start to pitch up gently and as u do it reduce the thrust as one will countrract the other...if u keep the thrust too long u will land long as the increase in pitch will turn into an increase of lift.If you reduce the thrust too fast,your sink rate will increase and you will need to pitch up more than necessary.
Read the fcom its really the way,,btw it states "appriximately" 20 feet as it depends on your seat position(if u sit too low ull flare too late,sit too high ull flare too high),descent rate...
If you start the flare at 30 feet,by the time the nose will rise the aircraft will about 20 feet..
Stable approach helps a stable pitch and thrust at 50feet and makes your flare maneuver stable..
Enjoy and good luck!!remember flaring is a visual maneuver.
Look at unreliable airspeed for an idea.
If you come in with too mych thrust ull float and underthrust ull sink.
Depending on your rate of descent,which normally should be around 700/800 ft/min..while looking at your aiming point,you will see it rise around 30 feet.
This is the time to gently start the flare by increasing the pitch gently and reducing the thrust towards idle while looking down the runway,,,as you have finished the flare,and your horizon doesnt move(no relative movement),you should have touchdown,if not release the elevator force and the aircraft will settle.
If u have difficulty with the visual in the beginning,once u pass the threshold,count 1,2 and start to pitch up gently and as u do it reduce the thrust as one will countrract the other...if u keep the thrust too long u will land long as the increase in pitch will turn into an increase of lift.If you reduce the thrust too fast,your sink rate will increase and you will need to pitch up more than necessary.
Read the fcom its really the way,,btw it states "appriximately" 20 feet as it depends on your seat position(if u sit too low ull flare too late,sit too high ull flare too high),descent rate...
If you start the flare at 30 feet,by the time the nose will rise the aircraft will about 20 feet..
Stable approach helps a stable pitch and thrust at 50feet and makes your flare maneuver stable..
Enjoy and good luck!!remember flaring is a visual maneuver.
