Ryan Air poor landings at STN
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Ryan Air poor landings at STN
I had the privallage of going up to the VCR at STN the other day, a great experience and ATS do a great job.
One thing I noticed was the poor quality of some of the landings from Ryan Air....
Conditions where good but 9/10 of the Ryan 73,s looked to bounce or a lot of smoke & dust from hard landing.
EZY A319's seemed to be touching down in a much more controlled manor
Given the 737 is fairly easy to perform a nice smothe landing if correct techniqe applied.
Would be interested to hear from FR pilots on the technique you are being thought especially from STN base.
Please don't take offence, this was just an observation & if like myself you aspire to make the perfect landing for your pax lets talk it out on here and see what comes out the other end...
One thing I noticed was the poor quality of some of the landings from Ryan Air....
Conditions where good but 9/10 of the Ryan 73,s looked to bounce or a lot of smoke & dust from hard landing.
EZY A319's seemed to be touching down in a much more controlled manor
Given the 737 is fairly easy to perform a nice smothe landing if correct techniqe applied.
Would be interested to hear from FR pilots on the technique you are being thought especially from STN base.
Please don't take offence, this was just an observation & if like myself you aspire to make the perfect landing for your pax lets talk it out on here and see what comes out the other end...
Were the "harder" landings on the touchdown markings or after a long float down the runway?
Always amazes me how people judge a landing by how smooth it is, completely ignoring where it is down the runway.
In general, a "firmer" landing on the touchdown markings is much safer than a greaser 300m further in.
Always amazes me how people judge a landing by how smooth it is, completely ignoring where it is down the runway.
In general, a "firmer" landing on the touchdown markings is much safer than a greaser 300m further in.
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Maybe a lot of guys are trying to vacate at the first RET because of landing traffic behind or to save time.
737s are heavier than A319s so to vacate asap it's best to touch down firmly rather than hold the aircraft off to make a soft touchdown. I'm not an Airbus pilot but my understanding is that they also fly the approach a lot slower than a 737. Again reducing the runway required.
I know runway 22 is classed as a hard landing hot spot as well.
Also it's called Ryanair, not Ryan Air. Pet peeve of mine.
737s are heavier than A319s so to vacate asap it's best to touch down firmly rather than hold the aircraft off to make a soft touchdown. I'm not an Airbus pilot but my understanding is that they also fly the approach a lot slower than a 737. Again reducing the runway required.
I know runway 22 is classed as a hard landing hot spot as well.
Also it's called Ryanair, not Ryan Air. Pet peeve of mine.
Ironically smoke from tyres on touchdown is more indicative of a smooth touchdown, I think.
Really? Have you flown the 737-800?
Given the 737 is fairly easy to perform a nice smothe landing if correct techniqe applied.
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Ironically smoke from tyres on touchdown is more indicative of a smooth touchdown, I think.
I have only flown classics
Look the landings looked hard, if this was done on purpose to exit quicker that explains it, as 9/10 were bounced, hard looking touch downs.
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It's been discussed before (surprise), this post gives the answer
http://www.pprune.org/7959983-post21.html
http://www.pprune.org/7959983-post21.html
The opinion of someone who has clearly not read the Boeing 737 Flight Crew Training Manual, not flown the 737NG, and I'll wager has generally had the luxury of flying into major airports where landing distances are not limiting.
The 738 is not the easiest of airliners to landed smoothly.
The manufacture states that that the aircraft should be landed positively and not greased on.
Runways used by Ryanair are often fairly limiting and therefore calculation of landing distances is critical. If you don't then land at the aiming point and get the weight on the wheels straight away your calculations are worthless.
Floating halfway down the runway to achieve a gentle landing aint much good if you then miss your turnoff incurring 10 minutes extra taxy time, or you go off the end of the runway at 50 kts, or you go off the side at 130kts because the it's covered in wet snow, there's a howling crosswind and you're trying to be a little fairy and pussyfooting around.
What the average passenger thinks is a hard landing, isn't actually a hard landing.
Poor old Ryanair pilot's can't win: if they do a Boeing textbook landing they get threads written about hard landings. If they do a greaser they get hassle for not doing a Boeing landing.
The 738 is not the easiest of airliners to landed smoothly.
The manufacture states that that the aircraft should be landed positively and not greased on.
Runways used by Ryanair are often fairly limiting and therefore calculation of landing distances is critical. If you don't then land at the aiming point and get the weight on the wheels straight away your calculations are worthless.
Floating halfway down the runway to achieve a gentle landing aint much good if you then miss your turnoff incurring 10 minutes extra taxy time, or you go off the end of the runway at 50 kts, or you go off the side at 130kts because the it's covered in wet snow, there's a howling crosswind and you're trying to be a little fairy and pussyfooting around.
What the average passenger thinks is a hard landing, isn't actually a hard landing.
Poor old Ryanair pilot's can't win: if they do a Boeing textbook landing they get threads written about hard landings. If they do a greaser they get hassle for not doing a Boeing landing.
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One of the byproducts of being worked like a slave us that you get plenty of practice. And some of the busiest pilots in the UK are those employed by RYR. And whilst I despise their CEO, I do admire the ability of his pilots. So Too_much, unless you are an accredited expert, an ATPL holder and 737 rated I'd suggest that what you saw were standard landings performed by competent, experienced pilots.
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Piltdown man - I get a feeling your post was more an implication of shut up I don't know what I'm talking about....
Thing is mate in aviation it's full of opinions, you come on this forum it's full of opinions and if you can't take the heat baby you need to get out of the kitchen.
Seems that constructive critism has no place for RYR pilots..
I saw what I saw, I'm an ATP, 737/727 rated 4,500 hrs worked all over the world & I'm telling you, these landings where not good, they were bounced some 2-3 times and the threshold covered in dust & smoke....
Just to add I have nothing against RYR, I just simply observed this as a professional pilot & I was surprised, so much so that I brought it up on here.
Thing is mate in aviation it's full of opinions, you come on this forum it's full of opinions and if you can't take the heat baby you need to get out of the kitchen.
Seems that constructive critism has no place for RYR pilots..
I saw what I saw, I'm an ATP, 737/727 rated 4,500 hrs worked all over the world & I'm telling you, these landings where not good, they were bounced some 2-3 times and the threshold covered in dust & smoke....
Just to add I have nothing against RYR, I just simply observed this as a professional pilot & I was surprised, so much so that I brought it up on here.
Those landings might have been performed by cadet pilots just joined and doing their line training perhaps?
(Note this is no criticism of cadet pilots as I was once one many decades ago)
(Note this is no criticism of cadet pilots as I was once one many decades ago)
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I agree, too much, aviation is full of opinions. Furthermore, everyone is an expert and everyone knows more than everyone else.
Out of curiosity, what is it that you WANT to hear, what answer are you actually after? Are you waiting for someone to agree with you that Ryanair pilots can't land? What's your actual point?
Out of curiosity, what is it that you WANT to hear, what answer are you actually after? Are you waiting for someone to agree with you that Ryanair pilots can't land? What's your actual point?
The 737 often looks like it bounces on touch down when in fact it is just settling down on the oleos. I don't for one second believe that you saw multiple genuinely bounced landings. I have performed some abominations in my time on the 737 and (touch wood) have yet to bounce it despite some real arrivals.
I hove often sat at the hold at various airports and enjoyed watching colleagues land. I am yet to spot a trend for any particular airline.
I hove often sat at the hold at various airports and enjoyed watching colleagues land. I am yet to spot a trend for any particular airline.
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Ok end of topic.
I was not trying to get at anyone, I just happened to be there on a particular day and saw a trend on these 737's
In terms of what I was hopping to get out of the topic is a better understanding of how RYR are doing things at STN.
If something doesn't seem right, speak up right???
Don't get me me wrong I have also watched other airfields with 737-800 operators in the US,OZ & Middle East but these were different to the ones I saw at STN
I was not trying to get at anyone, I just happened to be there on a particular day and saw a trend on these 737's
In terms of what I was hopping to get out of the topic is a better understanding of how RYR are doing things at STN.
If something doesn't seem right, speak up right???
Don't get me me wrong I have also watched other airfields with 737-800 operators in the US,OZ & Middle East but these were different to the ones I saw at STN
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Heathrowdirector - I haven't put any information on my profile because I don't really care too much for it, I have never looked at other peoples credentials on that bit of the site, further more there is no clarification process by the prune, so any joe blogs could write there an A380 Captain when they may never have flown in there life! I feel it's flawed so leave it blank.
If pprune start actually checking people's licenses before allowing members to state there experience then that is the day I will post my credentials
If pprune start actually checking people's licenses before allowing members to state there experience then that is the day I will post my credentials
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I just 'plonked' a 777 at MLW on due to a limiting runway, 1.4g on the meter. The brief was that if any float occured (which is a natural tendency, we do like to 'grease it on' if possible) it would be an automatic Go-Around. Failure to do so would have potentially seen a runway excursion.
What anybody else thinks of the landing is, to me, irrelevant as the two of us in the front are the only ones who know and are dealing with the myriad of variables used in each landing.
If you like the touchdown, great, if you don't, great.
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What anybody else thinks of the landing is, to me, irrelevant as the two of us in the front are the only ones who know and are dealing with the myriad of variables used in each landing.
If you like the touchdown, great, if you don't, great.
10000hrs +
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Sure even for myself if it's wet or runway length is a factor just get it down as early as possible....
But this is STN runway is hardly short there...
Personally I think they are flaring too high and too slow which is cause for the bounce and vast smoke.
But agreed there are some situations where a hard landing is warranted
I remember a flight I did once, where the only turn off was sort of in the middle of the runway, most of the guys would have to go to the end and back track, but I undershot safely and put it down harder than normal to save A- time & B- fuel
But this is STN runway is hardly short there...
Personally I think they are flaring too high and too slow which is cause for the bounce and vast smoke.
But agreed there are some situations where a hard landing is warranted
I remember a flight I did once, where the only turn off was sort of in the middle of the runway, most of the guys would have to go to the end and back track, but I undershot safely and put it down harder than normal to save A- time & B- fuel
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Ok children, RYR pilots are the greatest pilots in the world & there landings are faultless, will this make you happy and cheerful now?
And to the chap that quoted the undershoot comment, you perhaps are not experienced enough yet to realize that you can deviate from the book if conditions allow, but don't worry it's probably just the way they teach these days, do exactly what the book says and DONT take initiative or think outside the box if conditions allow....from that comment I would guess your a 180 at the end & back track kind of guy, and there's nothing wrong with that, I'm just always thinking one step ahead of the rest....
Good night much love
And to the chap that quoted the undershoot comment, you perhaps are not experienced enough yet to realize that you can deviate from the book if conditions allow, but don't worry it's probably just the way they teach these days, do exactly what the book says and DONT take initiative or think outside the box if conditions allow....from that comment I would guess your a 180 at the end & back track kind of guy, and there's nothing wrong with that, I'm just always thinking one step ahead of the rest....
Good night much love