ETOPS scenarios
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ETOPS scenarios
I have started flying ETOPS sectors recently and a couple of scenarios are foxing me.
1)I have an airport X, which based on the TAF predictions doesn't meet the dispatch minima criteria(which is more stringent than CAT I minima)and hence I have not X considered as an enroute etops alternate. The flight commences and just before entering EEP, I observe that the weather is above the CAT 1 minima (but below the stringent dispatch minima as predicted). In such a condition I encounter two separate scenarios
SCENARIO 1: Engine Failure
SCENARIO 2: Systems degradation which necessitates a diversion only in case of flying in ETOPS sector (say APU fail + one Main generator fail)
In each of these two scenarios can I consider X for diversion or would I have to avoid X because it was not an enroute ETOPS alternate.
2) In case of weather diversion in ETOPS RVSM airspace, do people follow the rule of descending or climbing 300ft based on the track followed when deviating more than 10nm OFF track and not in VHF/HF contact ?
1)I have an airport X, which based on the TAF predictions doesn't meet the dispatch minima criteria(which is more stringent than CAT I minima)and hence I have not X considered as an enroute etops alternate. The flight commences and just before entering EEP, I observe that the weather is above the CAT 1 minima (but below the stringent dispatch minima as predicted). In such a condition I encounter two separate scenarios
SCENARIO 1: Engine Failure
SCENARIO 2: Systems degradation which necessitates a diversion only in case of flying in ETOPS sector (say APU fail + one Main generator fail)
In each of these two scenarios can I consider X for diversion or would I have to avoid X because it was not an enroute ETOPS alternate.
2) In case of weather diversion in ETOPS RVSM airspace, do people follow the rule of descending or climbing 300ft based on the track followed when deviating more than 10nm OFF track and not in VHF/HF contact ?
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would I have to avoid X because it was not an enroute ETOPS alternate
Once you are airborne, do whatever you would normally do (ie, non-ETOPS) to ensure the safety of the aircraft.
If X is the best choice, then you can go there.
I sure as hell hope that pilots making weather diversions without HF/VHF contact follow the +/- 300 ft once established at 10nm off track. These rules are there for a reason and my safety is contingent on everyone else playing the game. If it is any consolation in all my years flying ETOP's I have never had to make a weather diversion that I couldn't get HF/VHF clearance for.
As for your 1st question, your ETOP's planning is just that. It is a planning tool to make sure you are compliant with ETOP's fuel planning. Once airborne (or should I say dispatched) then you are not bound to use your ETOP's alternates, you can choose ANY suitable airport. Infact our manual says that once airborne you can select ANY airport for an ETOPS alternate that has weather forceast to be above the expected landing minima. So in your example with weather above the ILS minima you could go there.
As for your 1st question, your ETOP's planning is just that. It is a planning tool to make sure you are compliant with ETOP's fuel planning. Once airborne (or should I say dispatched) then you are not bound to use your ETOP's alternates, you can choose ANY suitable airport. Infact our manual says that once airborne you can select ANY airport for an ETOPS alternate that has weather forceast to be above the expected landing minima. So in your example with weather above the ILS minima you could go there.
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The ETOPS enroute airports must meet the ETOPS planning minima at dispatch stage.
Once in flight, you can enter the ETOPS segment as long as the enroute airports are at or above your minima (not the more restrictive planning minima) and you have all the necessary equipment. Otherwise you have to reroute, fuel permitting, or make a stop.
Once inside de segment you can divert anywhere according to your minima, and in addition you can remain in the ETOPS segment even if you lose some ETOPS required equipment.
If all flights meet the ETOPS planning at the planning stage and the ETOPS airspace entering ones, statistically speaking, flying in such remote routes is a perfectly safe thing. If we didn't meet those, sooner or later something bad would happen.
Once in flight things are not so restrictive as they are at dispatch, and once in the ETOPS segment, you are the captain of your soul. There is no obligation to divert to the nominated enroute alternates, nor even to use the ETP as a decision point. You can decide anything, even flying for longer than the rule time, if required.
As a matter of fact, in some scenarios the ETP doesn't make any sense. Also consider that if you are flying a 120 rule ETOPS segment, you are considered to be safe as long as it doesn't take more than 2 hours. So if from the ETP to one alternate flight time is 70 min and to the other is 85 min, you are perfectly safe diverting to either one. Choose the one you like the best, never minding about ETOPS. Also it can happen that the ETP is in contradiction with another kind of decision point, like a terrain escape route. In that case, totally disregard the ETOPS thing. Respect the escape route, instead. If you met the ETOPS planning criteria and entered into airspace ETOPS meeting all requirements you are safe enough.
Hope it helps
Once in flight, you can enter the ETOPS segment as long as the enroute airports are at or above your minima (not the more restrictive planning minima) and you have all the necessary equipment. Otherwise you have to reroute, fuel permitting, or make a stop.
Once inside de segment you can divert anywhere according to your minima, and in addition you can remain in the ETOPS segment even if you lose some ETOPS required equipment.
If all flights meet the ETOPS planning at the planning stage and the ETOPS airspace entering ones, statistically speaking, flying in such remote routes is a perfectly safe thing. If we didn't meet those, sooner or later something bad would happen.
Once in flight things are not so restrictive as they are at dispatch, and once in the ETOPS segment, you are the captain of your soul. There is no obligation to divert to the nominated enroute alternates, nor even to use the ETP as a decision point. You can decide anything, even flying for longer than the rule time, if required.
As a matter of fact, in some scenarios the ETP doesn't make any sense. Also consider that if you are flying a 120 rule ETOPS segment, you are considered to be safe as long as it doesn't take more than 2 hours. So if from the ETP to one alternate flight time is 70 min and to the other is 85 min, you are perfectly safe diverting to either one. Choose the one you like the best, never minding about ETOPS. Also it can happen that the ETP is in contradiction with another kind of decision point, like a terrain escape route. In that case, totally disregard the ETOPS thing. Respect the escape route, instead. If you met the ETOPS planning criteria and entered into airspace ETOPS meeting all requirements you are safe enough.
Hope it helps
Last edited by Microburst2002; 27th Jul 2014 at 11:46. Reason: typos
I don't know which airline you fly for but if you are asking questions like this
Last edited by wiggy; 27th Jul 2014 at 15:32.
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I have started flying ETOPS sectors recently and a couple of scenarios are foxing me.
Why wait for your indepth ETOPS question answers from this forum??
ETOPS operations and aircraft maintenance functions are both considerations in your planning.
You are flying with an ETOPS airline??
