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Old 6th Dec 2012, 21:04   #1 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Europe
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Steep approach definition and regulations

Sigh!

Apparently, I have been looking in all the wrong places for the definition and regualtion of steep approaches. Recently a collegue and I discussed the subject and since I like not only to be right, but also to gloat, I'm looking for documentation.

I claimed that any approach with an angle beyond 4,5degrees was a steep approach, he claimed it was beyond 5,5. Who is right? Where can we find documentation (EU OPS)?

Since the PPRuNe community has all answers, I hope for a quick reply

Brgds,
Flaps
Flap Sup is offline   Reply
Old 7th Dec 2012, 02:30   #2 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
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We are prohibited from approaches exceeding 5.5.....

Between 4.5 and 5.5, steep approach "kit" required and special crew training.....it probably is different for each type, but for our Challenger, you would certainly win the argument.

Congratulations!
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Old 11th Dec 2012, 15:25   #3 (permalink)
 
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Location: Hants,UK
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From:
Official Journal of the European Union, REGULATIONS.
COMMISSION REGULATION (EU) No 965/2012,of 5 October 2012.
SUBPART C
AIRCRAFT PERFORMANCE AND OPERATING LIMITATIONS
SECTION 1
Aeroplanes
C H A P T E R 2:

CAT.POL.A.245 Approval of steep approach operations

(a) Steep approach operations using glideslope angles of 4,5 or more and with screen heights of less than 60 ft, but not less than 35 ft, require prior approval by the competent authority.

(b) To obtain the approval, the operator shall provide evidence that the following conditions are met:

(1) the AFM states the maximum approved glideslope angle, any other limitations, normal, abnormal or emergency procedures for the steep approach as well as amendments to the field length data when using steep approach criteria;

(2) for each aerodrome at which steep approach operations are to be conducted:

(i) a suitable glide path reference system comprising at least a visual glide path indicating system shall be available;
(ii) weather minima shall be specified; and
(iii) the following items shall be taken into consideration:
(A) the obstacle situation;
(B) the type of glide path reference and runway guidance;
(C) the minimum visual reference to be required at decision height (DH) and MDA;
(D) available airborne equipment;
(E) pilot qualification and special aerodrome familiarisation;
(F) AFM limitations and procedures; and
(G) missed approach criteria.
cloudrunner is offline   Reply
Old 11th Dec 2012, 21:37   #4 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: nowhere
Posts: 876
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudrunner View Post
From:
Official Journal of the European Union, REGULATIONS.
COMMISSION REGULATION (EU) No 965/2012,of 5 October 2012.
SUBPART C
AIRCRAFT PERFORMANCE AND OPERATING LIMITATIONS
SECTION 1
Aeroplanes
C H A P T E R 2:

CAT.POL.A.245 Approval of steep approach operations



(2) for each aerodrome at which steep approach operations are to be conducted:

(i) a suitable glide path reference system comprising at least a visual glide path indicating system shall be available;
I wonder if this can be an in the cockpit instrument glidepath indication or a PAPI type of indication.
JammedStab is offline   Reply
Old 13th Dec 2012, 01:22   #5 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 1,278
J S either.
For the first jet steep approach certification at LCY (BAe146), the aircraft limitation was specifically for a precision approach system of either ILS GS or PAPI; noting that the first P in PAPI is Precision, i.e. VASI would not be accepted.

Last edited by safetypee; 13th Dec 2012 at 01:25.
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Old 18th Dec 2012, 07:47   #6 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: nowhere
Posts: 876
Used to do the 5.5 degree steep slope thing as well. We only had it because it allowed us to dispatch a higher payload to be flown onto the short runway at this particular airport. The steep slope allowed a 35' threshold crossing height as opposed to the normal 50 foot height on this short airstrip. The FMS generated the glidepath but the PAPI's were still the old 3 degree type so they were ignored.

For light landing weights, a conventional slope approach was allowed. Of course some may tell you that the PAPI's were ignored in this case as well on short final as they guided the aircraft quite far down the short runway.

Last edited by JammedStab; 18th Dec 2012 at 07:49.
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