QuestionsIf you are a professional pilot or your work involves professional aviation please use this forum for questions. Enthusiasts, please use the 'Spectators Balcony' forum.
Ryanair B738 near Zurich on Feb 6th 2012, loss of cabin pressure
A Ryanair Boeing 737-800, registration EI-DCK performing flight FR-4523 from Milan Bergamo (Italy) to Brussels Charleroi (Belgium), was climbing through FL360 out of Bergamo about 40nm southeast of Zurich (Switzerland) when the crew donned their oxygen masks and initiated an emergency descent to FL100 (average sinkrate about 4300 feet/min) reporting a rapid decompression of their aircraft. The aircraft continued on FL100, later FL080 to destination for a safe landing on Charleroi's runway 25 about one hour after initiating the emergency descent.
Well, once you are down at F100 and assuming that you don't have a terrain problem, then what is the problem with continuing to destination as long as you have enough fuel to do it?
If the facts are as reported and they usually aren't: by the time the descent is actioned, by the time you have run the checks, communicated with the cabin crew, made PAs to reassure passengers(more then likely in more then one language) and established a plan of action, communicated with the company and allowed extra mileage for a descent rate of 500fpm for the remainder of the flight you will be as near as makes no difference to CRL. May as well continue to destination if no one requires emergency treatment.
I'm sure this thread will descend into total hysterics by uneducated and uninformed muppets because Ryanair has been mentioned. Ho Hum.
Subject, of course, to terrain: It is common to ski at 12,000ft or more so sitting down at 10,000ft shouldn't be a problem. Don't forget that the cabin altitude in the cruise will be 6,000 - 8,000ft. Looks like a good decision.
Quote:
"Well, once you are down at F100... ... and assuming that you don't have a terrain problem,... then what is the problem with continuing to destination as long as you have enough fuel to do it?
Quote: Isn't there a lot of cumulus granite "40 miles south east of Zurich"?
It's a long time since my last flight over the Alps, but I seem to recall that between Saronno and Trasandingen the MEA should be 14000 feet. And, during the emergency descent is wise to turn left or right to avoid traffic, and on both sides, the minima and granite don't fall.
It's a long time since my last flight over the Alps, but I seem to recall that between Saronno and Trasandingen the MEA should be 14000 feet. And, during the emergency descent is wise to turn left or right to avoid traffic, and on both sides, the minima and granite don't fall.
Ever heard of ATC that have a facility called radar who can assist you in which way to fly and ensure you're at a safe altitude for the area?
"Ever heard of ATC that have a facility called radar who can assist you in which way to fly and ensure you're at a safe altitude for the area?" I reply:
"Do You know how long it takes to get down to 14.000' from F360 during an Emergency Descent?"
"And You suppose that the PNF (or Pilot Monitoring, how You call him now) has enough time to do anything more than Don Mask, Establish Communication, Declare MAY DAY, Check Air Conditioning & Pressurization: Like: -Zurich Radar this is Ryan air 4523. I am requesting radar vectors and altitude to descend to, to avoid mountains-???????
"Do You know how long it takes to get down to 14.000' from F360 during an Emergency Descent?"
"And You suppose that the PNF (or Pilot Monitoring, how You call him now) has enough time to do anything more than Don Mask, Establish Communication, Declare MAY DAY, Check Air Conditioning & Pressurization: Like: -Zurich Radar this is Ryan air 4523. I am requesting radar vectors and altitude to descend to, to avoid mountains-???????
As someone who has been in the business circa 40 years, yes I do!
In a radar environment any controller worth his salt (and the Swiss are certainly one of the best) would certainly come up with a heading and information on safety altitude. That doesn't mean you can assume such assistance is there (many airlines have escape routes to cover such a contingency). It wouldnt take more than a few seconds for ATC to provide this information!
FO - Dons O2 mask verifies regulator @ 100%
Establishes comms with PF (Capt)
Cancels cabin alt warning horn (hopefully)
Sets Pressurisation Mode Selector to manual
Closes outflow valve
If cabin altitude is approaching or exceeding 14000' advises PF
Emergency Descent
FO- Pax signs on
Pax O2 verified on / guard opened and switch on
Engines start switch to CON
Sets 7700 in TXR and selects TA Only
Calls ATC - Mayday, Emergency descent, current heading requesting MSA
regional pressure setting
Reads related checklists
Monitors for descent into icing conditions
Calls passing each 10,000'
Calls two to go and one to go to level off
Monitors Captains actions and calls out omissions
Indeed, and it isn't practiced enough in my opinion. Probably because it is a time consuming exercise! The problem here is that crews become unfamiliar with the memory items and omitt many when put to the test. In my opinion we are all very good at the 'engine fire or severe damage or seperation' stuff (repeated every 6 months) but crap with most others. History suggests that pressurisation issues are more likely than engine malfunction on the 737. The pressurisation system is it's weakness
Enroute from Le Bourget to Linate, I heard ATC clear this Ryanair flight down to FL100. They also advised the crew of a 7.000 feet MSA and provided a regional QNH.
And as far as I remember: The radar controller is only responsible for obstacle clearance after having pronounced: "This will be a radar vectoring for a final ILS (or what else) approach for runway ..."
With almost 5000'/min rate it takes a little more than 4 minutes to get down from F360 to 14000'; it's not such a long time to... "Aviate, navigate, communicate" & "Dive and drive"!!!
What is the issue? Any pilot worth his license knows the MSA/MEA/MORA of the route he is flying. It is an item on any emergency descent checklist: descend to MSA/FL100.
So, the Ryanair had enough fuel to continue to destination. Well done.
... and assuming that you don't have a terrain problem,...
load. All to be done in this order by memory.
